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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2013, 08:23 AM
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my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

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IMHO this is a thread full of good information, however for all the wrong reasons.

4000+ lb car with a lengthy wheel base, the wrong setup for any kind of a good weight transfer, stock suspension, over cammed, not enough stall, not enough gear and the question is why is it lazy . Rather than conclude to find a different chassis combo for the hot motor OR get rid of the cam and compression and use the car for getting groceries in a hurry we beat around the bush and talk about timing?

No offense to the OP but you would be better off taming down the 400 if you want to keep it in that chassis, either that or get a 4500 stall and some 4:88 gears.

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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2013, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiLac View Post
you need higher octane for your compression ratio, brew some your self if not available near you... message me for mixtures and octane rating.
i would like to know the formula as much as anyone else.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2013, 04:35 PM
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"brew some your self " I'm interested to see this too

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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2013, 04:53 PM
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why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom10 View Post
IMHO this is a thread full of good information, however for all the wrong reasons.

4000+ lb car with a lengthy wheel base, the wrong setup for any kind of a good weight transfer, stock suspension, over cammed, not enough stall, not enough gear and the question is why is it lazy . Rather than conclude to find a different chassis combo for the hot motor OR get rid of the cam and compression and use the car for getting groceries in a hurry we beat around the bush and talk about timing?

No offense to the OP but you would be better off taming down the 400 if you want to keep it in that chassis, either that or get a 4500 stall and some 4:88 gears.
why would a lazy engine all of a sudden be not lazy in a different chassis? If the engine is tuned,its tuned,,,
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2013, 08:11 PM
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my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

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Not saying the motor cant be tuned or is not tuned, sure put it on a dyno and tune the snot out of it, till it makes 450HP but then put it in this car with this conv and gear combo,,,and it suddenly is lazy, that is what is happening here

Tuning is done last, you cant tune the lazy out of a 246 duration cam with a 3000 stall, 373 gears in a 4000 lb car can you?

maybe it pulls like hell after 3500 rpm, would not surprise me
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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2013, 08:36 PM
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confused

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Not saying the motor cant be tuned or is not tuned, sure put it on a dyno and tune the snot out of it, till it makes 450HP but then put it in this car with this conv and gear combo,,,and it suddenly is lazy, that is what is happening here

Tuning is done last, you cant tune the lazy out of a 246 duration cam with a 3000 stall, 373 gears in a 4000 lb car can you?

maybe it pulls like hell after 3500 rpm, would not surprise me
Is the engine lazy or is the car not reacting properly? There is a difference,,,
An engine has an RPM range that is most efficient,based on tuning and tunerparts...lets say 4-7,000,rpm,from idle to 4,000 rpm the engine should accelerate normally and really get going when nearing peak torque.Below 4,000 rpm the engine needs not be "lazy"just not as impressive as when it gets into the power making region.
I drive standard with an engine that makes peak torque @4750,ish and makes peak HP @ 6500.
Off idle ,if I punch the throttle the car accelerate just fine and usuall breaks traction at 1700 rpm in first and 33 ish in second...no converter,,,no big gears, very big carb and cam,,relatively speaking.
explain the "lazy" I should have?
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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2013, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
Is the engine lazy or is the car not reacting properly? There is a difference,,,
An engine has an RPM range that is most efficient,based on tuning and tunerparts...lets say 4-7,000,rpm,from idle to 4,000 rpm the engine should accelerate normally and really get going when nearing peak torque.Below 4,000 rpm the engine needs not be "lazy"just not as impressive as when it gets into the power making region.
I drive standard with an engine that makes peak torque @4750,ish and makes peak HP @ 6500.
Off idle ,if I punch the throttle the car accelerate just fine and usuall breaks traction at 1700 rpm in first and 33 ish in second...no converter,,,no big gears, very big carb and cam,,relatively speaking.
explain the "lazy" I should have?
You have "lazy" tires...(no traction)
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2013, 09:54 PM
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bird,I got no traction from the BFGs so I have new tires on my car.traction is good and corvettes hook quite well.My engine is not lazy,,,
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  #144 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2013, 10:21 PM
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The BFG radials are useless for straight line traction. Might a well grease the tread.
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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2013, 10:27 PM
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you cant tune the lazy out of a 246 duration cam with a 3000 stall, 373 gears in a 4000 lb car can you?

Ya you can... 5 minutes spent to simply give the cammed up motor the timing it wants by simply locking out the advance curve will turn this into a whole different car. Any required tuning beyond this is minor and easy.

Even if a 5000 rpm race converter and a 5.13 gear was swapped in , it still needs this correction to the ignition timing.
It will be very responsive once set up right. It is dirt simple to lock out a HEI and install a simple ignition power
interupt switch. total cost about $15.

The root of the problem is the basic lack of enough timing at idle.

This is not a strip only set up. it will run very nice every day on the street with the locked out mechanical advacen combined with the right amount of custom dialed in vacuum advance, using ported vacuum.
It will be a whole different car.

Will pobabily now need a new set of fresh spark plugs too...

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 03-11-2013 at 10:34 PM.
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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2013, 11:17 PM
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Bfg

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The BFG radials are useless for straight line traction. Might a well grease the tread.
those tires were junk for lateral traction as well
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  #147 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2013, 09:43 PM
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my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
you cant tune the lazy out of a 246 duration cam with a 3000 stall, 373 gears in a 4000 lb car can you?

Ya you can... 5 minutes spent to simply give the cammed up motor the timing it wants by simply locking out the advance curve will turn this into a whole different car. Any required tuning beyond this is minor and easy.

Even if a 5000 rpm race converter and a 5.13 gear was swapped in , it still needs this correction to the ignition timing.
It will be very responsive once set up right. It is dirt simple to lock out a HEI and install a simple ignition power
interupt switch. total cost about $15.

The root of the problem is the basic lack of enough timing at idle.

This is not a strip only set up. it will run very nice every day on the street with the locked out mechanical advacen combined with the right amount of custom dialed in vacuum advance, using ported vacuum.
It will be a whole different car.

Will pobabily now need a new set of fresh spark plugs too...
oh who is yada yada now lol The thing is desitine as is to crap the bed regardless of timing
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  #148 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2013, 09:56 PM
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We can keep going over the fact that his combo sucks but he obviously doesn't want to fix it. I say we just drop it until he finds some sense and realizes he needs a motor with more torque instead of this high rpm thing he's built. Op, sell the cam and heads, get lower compression heads with a smaller cam and get some 3.73's out back. You're converter will be fine then so just leave it. That's the only way this car is going to perform the way you want it to. It's been said at least 20 times now. You can lock out the timing and buy all the fancy ignitions you want but the fact is that you have a bad combo and no amount of tuning is going to fix that. With the amount of money you just spent on the e-curve you could have bought a house brand cam from jegs and some large chamber heads off craigslist or a junkyard and had your car running right, but you chose the lazy route with the distributor which isn't going to get you anywhere.
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  #149 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2013, 10:00 PM
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my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

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I can only wish the OP is going to chime in, good points eveyone.
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  #150 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:33 AM
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Vinnie Quote: "why would a lazy engine all of a sudden be not lazy in a different chassis? If the engine is tuned,its tuned,,,"

F-BIRD'88 Quote "Ya you can... 5 minutes spent to simply give the cammed up motor the timing it wants by simply locking out the advance curve will turn this into a whole different car. Any required tuning beyond this is minor and easy."

I agree with both of you

Lets get the Timing in and minor tune from there, it will run like a different car!!!! He has what he has and he's trying to get it dialed in LOL! I do admit he's a little slow responding with any progress in locking his total timing Either with plastic ties or the E curve dials LOL! I'm waiting for his input on the difference the timing makes and then moving on to the next step

Jester
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