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  #151 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2013, 08:17 PM
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Edit:word needed was "verified" on a degree wheel.

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  #152 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2013, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by painted jester View Post
I visited your profile and read your threads LOL your a joke LOL and have no business talking to the OP "LIKE THAT" especially after the stupid novice Questions you asked on your threads!!! AT LEAST HE ADMITS HE DOESN'T KNOW IT ALL!!!! IF YOU CAN'T SAY ANYTHING CONSTRUCTIVE JUST BOW OUT OF THE THREAD !!! Read it maybe you'll learn something.


Jester
Is that really what you want to say? Criticize my occasional "novice question". Nowhere did i say that i know everything. Not even close. The op was told the combo was bad at the first page of the thread, he decided to leave it cause somehow he thinks it's gonna work. Fbird tells him to see how it responds to locked timing and instead of doing it weeks ago he has spent this whole time jacking us around and wasting everyones time so i feel that i'll talk to him however i feel necessary to get my point across. And you want to defend him. Like you have such great info to give. Yea, change your tire size, cause that will definitely tune the engine. Awesome friggin idea. You literally said it was an impressive build on the first page! It's not! His cam is massive, the converter is tight, the intake is for high rpm, yet he wants low end grunt. He has a motor that will just start to make power at 3000, but is backed by a converter that locks up at 3000, in a big heavy car. In no way is that a good combo. NOT IN A MILLION YEARS.
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2013, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog7373 View Post
Is that really what you want to say? Criticize my occasional "novice question". Nowhere did i say that i know everything. Not even close. The op was told the combo was bad at the first page of the thread, he decided to leave it cause somehow he thinks it's gonna work. Fbird tells him to see how it responds to locked timing and instead of doing it weeks ago he has spent this whole time jacking us around and wasting everyones time so i feel that i'll talk to him however i feel necessary to get my point across. And you want to defend him. Like you have such great info to give. Yea, change your tire size, cause that will definitely tune the engine. Awesome friggin idea. You literally said it was an impressive build on the first page! It's not! His cam is massive, the converter is tight, the intake is for high rpm, yet he wants low end grunt. He has a motor that will just start to make power at 3000, but is backed by a converter that locks up at 3000, in a big heavy car. In no way is that a good combo. NOT IN A MILLION YEARS.
I see you cant read either LOL

I said Quote: "Why did you plan a build like this for your first (just curious) Its one hell of an accomplishment for your first build Who suggested that cam to you?"
I also said Quote: "After you get your timing set LOL
Changing tires is a good way to make minor changes to your vehicle's acceleration and top speed without having to resort to a gearing change"

You should read the entire post and not skip things! you miss a lot that way

The OP said it ran great and pulled hard from around 3,000 RPM just what his build with that cam should do, and most people that build that type of engine expect a week bottom end on the street! He just wants it better at bottom end! The engine isn't a bad combo if tuned in!!! It might be a bad choice for his chassis and running gear! But that can be approached and taken care of later! If he tears it apart and redose it he may gain bottom end but then lose the pull at top end he likes! I'll defend anyone on here even you, I have plenty of patience for him or anyone else to get things dialed in! I don't ridicule OPs with 4 letter words or run their builds down to embarrass them to other members thinking it will make them move faster! I get on here because I enjoy it! I don't look at it like its my job and get up tight or pis-sed and say things like this:

"put the e-curve waste of money up his *** and growled like a tiger"

"stop avoiding the fact that it's a **** combo and will never run right"

"buy all the fancy **** you want, it's not going to change the fact that you had no idea wtf you were doing when you put it together and ended up with junk"

"rip out all the mismatched **** that doesn't fit together and redo the whole thing."

"He has a motor that will just start to make power at 3000, but is backed by a converter that locks up at 3000, in a big heavy car. In no way is that a good combo. NOT IN A MILLION YEARS."

By the way no one knows when that converter locks up at? That depends on the flash torque the engine puts on it! Not the advertised stall speed a manufacturer puts on it! An advertised 2500 stall converter could stall at 3800 rpm with enough torque applied to it at flash point!

Jester
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2013, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Custom10 View Post
I really dont think it takes a do over, I see nothing wrong with a 246 duration 11:1 stroker motor with decent heads and air gap, headers etc etc like we have here.

Just put in in front of a 3800 stall with at least 4:11's in a chassis that hooks, get the particulars such as timing and carb worked out and bob is your uncle.

Not sure why we beat these dead horses from time to time, send this thread to the glue factory
It's not that I disagree with you on the cam/stroker/compression question.It's more a question of given the O/P's experience level if a compounding factor if the cam is installed right and confirming that as a foundation to go on from there. I am giving him tons of credit for the assembly he did and getting it running,but then again apart of the tune is degree'ing the cam.
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2013, 08:12 AM
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When you have an engine that seems to have the right parts and is close on tune and still wont run, consider replacing the camshaft as it may be defective. I have only seen it a few times, and only with cams from one company, but the change in performance was dramatic, pretty much night and day.
I recommend Isky for cams, whether catalog or custom grinds.
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2013, 04:20 PM
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How Many miles do you have on this engine ?, has it seen any track tuning time?

Your PCV is that the one that is covered by the pretty looking fake breather? If it is The bottom of that breather the PCV goes in are notorious for sucking air and seeping oil out the bottom plate they are crimped on and not sealed or welded solid where the grommet goes! I had one on my Vette I had to seal the bottom seam of the fake breather with silicone!

This has nothing to do with your build its just an explanation of trouble shooting even though its some of your same components its a build I did before I retired and sold my shop! For a customer that supplied his own parts for a blue print. Ive installed and ran that same Lunati cam the last one I installed straight up with 1.6 roller rockers, pro comp aluminum heads, 12 to 1 C.R.. in a 355, 350 trans B&M 3000 stall, stock posi 3.73 gear 27" tall tires (stock size tires). The performance in a 3600 pound car (76 Vette) at the track was great, It launched and pulled hard from 2400rpm on up with the rpm air gap intake (that I don't like) LOL, initial timing was 10 total 34 no vacuum advance the B&M 3000 converter flash stalled at 3400, the carb was a BG 750 vacuum secondary and 1 3/4 primary long tube headers. I built it with what the customer wanted! It ran high 13s in the 1/4 on street tires and premium pump gas during tune up runs. But the customer didn't like the bottom end performance when he drove on the street. He wanted the power down low to show off!! It was ok normal stop and go traffic but if he showered down on it at a low roll it wouldn't put him back in the seat till he it hit about 2400 rpm!

First thing I did was put a 750 Holley double pumper on it, it helped a lot right out of the box changed power valve and re jetted, tuned in accelerator pumps and it was better, then set initial time up to 16 btdc and and total to 38
helped even more, but couldn't run pump gas without octane booster or cranking back the timing, Got down to low 13s. Bottom end street performance was better, but not to his liking yet so I pulled the 1.6 rockers off the intakes and put 1.5s on and kept the 1.6s on the exhausts set the valves with a vacume gauge, it woke the engine up a little at the bottom but lost at the top! LOL But he liked it better at the bottom so we kept the 1.5 rockers on the intakes.

The engine was performing better at the bottom, he asked if he could get more, and I mentioned advancing the cam or going to a new cam more suitable to bottom end power we decided I would advance the cam to see what it would do and it really came alive at about 1900 rpm and had no lag, it was much more to his liking I suggested a better intake to match his power band but he liked the RPM air gap! We dropped to 25" tires with a wider foot print and bottom end performance increased and the flash stall went from 3400 to 2900 RPM, so now he goes back to 27 inch tires at the track and the flash stall of 3400 gives him a better stage launch and it launches better at the track, and he runs the 25 inch on the street he has better acceleration at bottom end for normal driving!

I only saw him once since then at a show last fall his only complaint was when it got cold (NORTHERN MICHIGAN, OCTOBER PUMPKIN RUN) that air gap intake would frost and the carb throat would frost but he still won't change it and also had to mix racing gas with pump gas! He was happy with the rest.

I HATE TYPING I use one finger and it takes forever

It takes a long enough time to tune a build that's well planed and has well matched eng. to chassis components, let alone a build that makes you happy at top end but not at bottom! And your on a budget!

After building many combinations and different RPM range race or street engines for Chevy, Mopar, Ford, ETC we on here know what works like Fbird, Cobalt, Vinnie, #1 Gary, Custom10 Etc, Etc, our initial suggestions on where to start on a tune may very and we may see what another reader doesn't notice in our reading of a thread but we come to agreement on the Finnish its just our experiences over the years with different combinations that vary where we start a tune in, or give an answer on a thread that makes our suggestions different from each other and we sometimes bump heads LOL

I wrote this because it shows how long it takes to tune in a build that a persons not happy with even for a professional! When your build is for rpm and top end power at the track and it doesn't satisfy you when you try to put it on the street! A person cant have BOTH you have to sacrifice at bottom or top end!!! You trouble shoot and change 1 thing at a time and do it first and walk your way through the trouble shooting process (it takes a lot of time and knowledge from experience with other builds over years)_!!!! You don't do 2 changes at once it compounds things if you have problems you now have 2 things to trouble shoot, rather then knowing the problem is in the 1 thing you did!!!! FBird mentioned timing lock out some of us disagreed in the beginning and mentioned other places to start!(bumped heads) But we all met and backed off to start at the lock out test (our heads came together) LOL But we could have all come together at carb tuning or any other point someone brought up It made no difference where we started trouble shooting your engine! As long as it gets started somewhere

About converter stall ( you may already know this?)
Flash stall can change just by reworking the load that the converter sees. For instance, if the car has a 4.11:1 rear axle ratio and the flash stall is 2,500 rpm on a launch, a change to a 3.73:1 gear or taller tires might see the flash speed increase to 3,000 rpm. Why? the load on the converter went up making the converter slip more! The weight of the car will change flash stall speed too, lighter vehicles will lower the flash stall speed; heavier vehicles will raise flash stall. If the same car had the rear gear swapped for a 5.13:1 ratio, this would cause the flash stall speed to go down. because the converter has begun to couple up progressively as the load it sees gets lower. A combination with a 4.33:1 gear or shorter tires would make the car easier to move when compared to the 4.11:1 or 3.73:1 and tall tire combinations the 4.33:1 would lower the flash stall more the 3.73 would raise it!

That's why the good converter manufacturers want the info on car weight, tire size, cam info, Etc,Etc, Brake stall is nothing but just a basic set measure When the converter over rides the average foot brake holding ability with no knowledge of any particular vehicle, eng. torque or build its the flash stall that's important when choosing a converter!!

Example:
A Vega 4 cylinder converter will stall coupled to the stock Vega engine about lets say 1000 RPM but put that same Vega converter behind a stock 350 and it will flash stall way up to 3000 rpm put it on a 454 big block and it will stall at flash 4500 rpm! All the old racers on here know this about converters we ran them LOL they didn't last very long LOL but were cheep at any junk yard and would last a weekend at the track LOL

Jester


Crappy weather here, parts I ordered aren't in yet for Mopar 383 build and I got carried away typing what I was thinking about! Drinking coffee LOL watching Gun Smoke and Bonanza LOL . I was going to delete all of it except for the part about the PCV! But then thought someone might like or enjoy the read

Don't do this stupid thing Im going to Mention
I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT a "B" Gasser I ran in the late '60s all top end locked out REV POLE dual point at 42 degrees, idled at 3000 rpm, well I used to take it down the street to a DOG & SUDS on a week end every once and a great while for a root beer float LOL It was a real slug at bottom end but man on a 4500 RPM launch from the stop light to the drive way of the S&D it was great and drew a big crowd when I pulled in !!!!! I would never have changed it for more bottom end power!!!! It did exactly what I built it to do!!!!!!! And I was happy with it and I had no business putting it on the street even just to go a couple of blocks Years latter around '72 I built a street sleeper engine and converted the Gasser to street legal car. And always missed the old top end power!


Wow my typing fingers BLEEDING LOL
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:27 AM
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Jester.I too have seen people get crossed up trying to integrate race only parts for street use. I think some of that comes from the comic auto book magazine articles which seldom tells the whole story as long as it promotes the parts for sales.Street strip cars do exist but as you say with some trade offs.The thing at gets me is how confused the market is on parts.Everyone is promoting bigger ports,bigger cams,and at the end of the day it all leads to power bands that are not the normal driving range in RPM or used very little.I think it is a horrible injustice we still put so much in hp and ignore how much off idle torque means for street driven vehicles. Gezz all the money spent and the limited use for it. We still field questions all the time about someones combo and how much hp will it have. For me a builder worth his salt knows how mix parts to build a engine that has a smooth transition for both ends and makes sacrifices alittle on each. I still to this day hold guys on the street that are sleepers with engines that purr like a kitten,but when they hit the loud peddle roar like a lion in very high regard.


BTW the poser cams...........................OMG what a bunch of B.S.!!!!!.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by painted jester View Post
How Many miles do you have on this engine ?, has it seen any track tuning time?

Your PCV is that the one that is covered by the pretty looking fake breather? If it is The bottom of that breather the PCV goes in are notorious for sucking air and seeping oil out the bottom plate they are crimped on and not sealed or welded solid where the grommet goes! I had one on my Vette I had to seal the bottom seam of the fake breather with silicone!

This has nothing to do with your build its just an explanation of trouble shooting even though its some of your same components its a build I did before I retired and sold my shop! For a customer that supplied his own parts for a blue print. Ive installed and ran that same Lunati cam the last one I installed straight up with 1.6 roller rockers, pro comp aluminum heads, 12 to 1 C.R.. in a 355, 350 trans B&M 3000 stall, stock posi 3.73 gear 27" tall tires (stock size tires). The performance in a 3600 pound car (76 Vette) at the track was great, It launched and pulled hard from 2400rpm on up with the rpm air gap intake (that I don't like) LOL, initial timing was 10 total 34 no vacuum advance the B&M 3000 converter flash stalled at 3400, the carb was a BG 750 vacuum secondary and 1 3/4 primary long tube headers. I built it with what the customer wanted! It ran high 13s in the 1/4 on street tires and premium pump gas during tune up runs. But the customer didn't like the bottom end performance when he drove on the street. He wanted the power down low to show off!! It was ok normal stop and go traffic but if he showered down on it at a low roll it wouldn't put him back in the seat till he it hit about 2400 rpm!

First thing I did was put a 750 Holley double pumper on it, it helped a lot right out of the box changed power valve and re jetted, tuned in accelerator pumps and it was better, then set initial time up to 16 btdc and and total to 38
helped even more, but couldn't run pump gas without octane booster or cranking back the timing, Got down to low 13s. Bottom end street performance was better, but not to his liking yet so I pulled the 1.6 rockers off the intakes and put 1.5s on and kept the 1.6s on the exhausts set the valves with a vacume gauge, it woke the engine up a little at the bottom but lost at the top! LOL But he liked it better at the bottom so we kept the 1.5 rockers on the intakes.

The engine was performing better at the bottom, he asked if he could get more, and I mentioned advancing the cam or going to a new cam more suitable to bottom end power we decided I would advance the cam to see what it would do and it really came alive at about 1900 rpm and had no lag, it was much more to his liking I suggested a better intake to match his power band but he liked the RPM air gap! We dropped to 25" tires with a wider foot print and bottom end performance increased and the flash stall went from 3400 to 2900 RPM, so now he goes back to 27 inch tires at the track and the flash stall of 3400 gives him a better stage launch and it launches better at the track, and he runs the 25 inch on the street he has better acceleration at bottom end for normal driving!

I only saw him once since then at a show last fall his only complaint was when it got cold (NORTHERN MICHIGAN, OCTOBER PUMPKIN RUN) that air gap intake would frost and the carb throat would frost but he still won't change it and also had to mix racing gas with pump gas! He was happy with the rest.

I HATE TYPING I use one finger and it takes forever

It takes a long enough time to tune a build that's well planed and has well matched eng. to chassis components, let alone a build that makes you happy at top end but not at bottom! And your on a budget!

After building many combinations and different RPM range race or street engines for Chevy, Mopar, Ford, ETC we on here know what works like Fbird, Cobalt, Vinnie, #1 Gary, Custom10 Etc, Etc, our initial suggestions on where to start on a tune may very and we may see what another reader doesn't notice in our reading of a thread but we come to agreement on the Finnish its just our experiences over the years with different combinations that vary where we start a tune in, or give an answer on a thread that makes our suggestions different from each other and we sometimes bump heads LOL

I wrote this because it shows how long it takes to tune in a build that a persons not happy with even for a professional! When your build is for rpm and top end power at the track and it doesn't satisfy you when you try to put it on the street! A person cant have BOTH you have to sacrifice at bottom or top end!!! You trouble shoot and change 1 thing at a time and do it first and walk your way through the trouble shooting process (it takes a lot of time and knowledge from experience with other builds over years)_!!!! You don't do 2 changes at once it compounds things if you have problems you now have 2 things to trouble shoot, rather then knowing the problem is in the 1 thing you did!!!! FBird mentioned timing lock out some of us disagreed in the beginning and mentioned other places to start!(bumped heads) But we all met and backed off to start at the lock out test (our heads came together) LOL But we could have all come together at carb tuning or any other point someone brought up It made no difference where we started trouble shooting your engine! As long as it gets started somewhere

About converter stall ( you may already know this?)
Flash stall can change just by reworking the load that the converter sees. For instance, if the car has a 4.11:1 rear axle ratio and the flash stall is 2,500 rpm on a launch, a change to a 3.73:1 gear or taller tires might see the flash speed increase to 3,000 rpm. Why? the load on the converter went up making the converter slip more! The weight of the car will change flash stall speed too, lighter vehicles will lower the flash stall speed; heavier vehicles will raise flash stall. If the same car had the rear gear swapped for a 5.13:1 ratio, this would cause the flash stall speed to go down. because the converter has begun to couple up progressively as the load it sees gets lower. A combination with a 4.33:1 gear or shorter tires would make the car easier to move when compared to the 4.11:1 or 3.73:1 and tall tire combinations the 4.33:1 would lower the flash stall more the 3.73 would raise it!

That's why the good converter manufacturers want the info on car weight, tire size, cam info, Etc,Etc, Brake stall is nothing but just a basic set measure When the converter over rides the average foot brake holding ability with no knowledge of any particular vehicle, eng. torque or build its the flash stall that's important when choosing a converter!!

Example:
A Vega 4 cylinder converter will stall coupled to the stock Vega engine about lets say 1000 RPM but put that same Vega converter behind a stock 350 and it will flash stall way up to 3000 rpm put it on a 454 big block and it will stall at flash 4500 rpm! All the old racers on here know this about converters we ran them LOL they didn't last very long LOL but were cheep at any junk yard and would last a weekend at the track LOL

Jester


Crappy weather here, parts I ordered aren't in yet for Mopar 383 build and I got carried away typing what I was thinking about! Drinking coffee LOL watching Gun Smoke and Bonanza LOL . I was going to delete all of it except for the part about the PCV! But then thought someone might like or enjoy the read

Don't do this stupid thing Im going to Mention
I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT a "B" Gasser I ran in the late '60s all top end locked out REV POLE dual point at 42 degrees, idled at 3000 rpm, well I used to take it down the street to a DOG & SUDS on a week end every once and a great while for a root beer float LOL It was a real slug at bottom end but man on a 4500 RPM launch from the stop light to the drive way of the S&D it was great and drew a big crowd when I pulled in !!!!! I would never have changed it for more bottom end power!!!! It did exactly what I built it to do!!!!!!! And I was happy with it and I had no business putting it on the street even just to go a couple of blocks Years latter around '72 I built a street sleeper engine and converted the Gasser to street legal car. And always missed the old top end power!


Wow my typing fingers BLEEDING LOL
Nice rant Jester!! I enjoyed reading it.
Very good for you to point out the 'only change one thing at a time rule'. An old mechanic friend of mine wised me up to that 35yrs ago, and I've abided by it ever since.
That way there are no guesses regarding what helped or what made it worse.
Nice work explaining the converter stall speeds too!


Duke
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2013, 03:45 PM
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The over the counter sales people are there to make a sale they don't care or know what the use of a product will do! I'll even try to call a teck guy and see what a knew product can add to a build and ask the tech a few questions and lo and behold they only know what they are reading off a paper! This sight is great for info on real world testing! Guys that will tell you what the real world gains and draw backs are and the reality of the hipe company's put out to sell a product! It used to be Hotrod, Rod Action, Custom Rodder etc, had real world comparisons in their articles but this day and age the almighty dollar provides the bias on testing results (they can't make a future or present advertiser mad LOL) And a company that tests its own products and compares them to another!!!! Now we know they will tell you the true outcome or will they edit it to make it only show the gains and not the downs

I see builds go right to the 1.6 ratio rockers on small blocks because others do it and they read some blog without even trying other rocker ratios or combinations and actually are losing not gaining and don't even know it! LOL! I know its hard for a guy that's a beginner and on a budget to test and change combinations of parts Most can't afford to buy all the things to test run and see what is best! But the guys that tasted the salt and the old guys on here have tested and like me have cams and rockers and different carbs and heads laying in our shops or garages that we have tested with and we used combinations in the past years and know what works!!

The guy on here that builds an engine and asks advice on silly novice things:
Like:
( I torqued my mains and cant turn over my engine now!! Whats wrong? I could turn it over easy before I tore it down) In his threads and a few months later is giving advice and telling old hard knocked went through the ropes men on here they are wrong!!!! That drives me Absolutely NUTS OR Whats my HP? LOL Or "I think my Compression is?" or "How do I check my piston deck height with my heads on?" or "What oil do I run In a Porchia?" and then they get to very quickly giving advice on here


The really (DUMB) biggest mistake I see in combinations is high stall converter choices people make!!!!! People picking an advertised stall speed and take it for granted that no matter what you put it behind that its going to stall at that RPM!!!!! I see good builds that are having their power washed out by the converter and blame it on everything else except the converter!!!!!! They buy these Jegs or Summit or over the parts counter converters thinking they are saving Money and they depend on talking to a salesman or tech guy who tells them the stall speed and says it will work fine!! The stock converter they took out that stalled at 1500 rpm could stall at 2500 rpm with the torque the new engine puts on it! And they install a new advertised 3000 stall converter and it eats up their torque and builds up so much heat it ruins the trans in a very short time!

Not to create waves here but when any one on here recommends a converter the wording is important!! because saying: "You need a 3000 stall converter" doesn't mean the same thing as saying "You need a converter that stalls at 3000 RPM"!!! and then tell them to call a converter co. and give the info so the manufacturer can recommend the right one to meet your specs and will stall close to 3000!!!


We have an OP here that wants more bottom end on a car built for top end performance! We can't drive it? So we are guessing at where the loss of power is? What makes it real hard is because each of us on here are imagining where it feels like its losing power! Im imagining its when he puts it to the floor from a slow roll off a stop light, Fbird might imagine it being a dog just rolling out from a stop at part throttle, Cobalt could be imagining its at the transition from primary's to secondary's!

We don't know what his lifter adjustment is, his rocker ratios, his vacuum draw, his true compression, or what his converter is doing to his torque at low RPM it could be slipping badly? Maybe its setting in a yard and it gets dark early? I'm guessing at the yard thing?LOL We don't know how many miles are on the build, Maybe the rings haven't even seated yet?

He is in a position that he works and cant get to the car every day, I can see that!! I imagine maybe he takes Buses or rides a bike and doesn't have another car and the car is in the country at his Dads and buses don't run there LOL But some imagine he can drive 30 miles very easy every day because its easy for them to do it! He mentioned He needed another foot in one of his posts ? Hell maybe he has no feet??? We imagine things from our experiences and our every day habits! So we think every one does and are able to do what we do day in day out!! But our lives don't apply to every one elses that comes on here!!!! I saw a guy get scolded & reamed on here for his spelling and grammar and it ended up he was from another country and couldn't speak the language and was using a web translator!!

I just relax, and wait till an O.P. comes back with the info so we can go on with our recommendations I hate when your in a thread and giving advice over time keeping the subscription open and they never come back I have to unsubscribe to these treads to make room all the time!!!! All the info we add to a thread and none of us see if anything worked out or not ITS AGGRAVATING I'm subscribed to about 20 now and its climbing and some are months old So I'll be dumping some of those LOL

I hope The O.P. doesn't mind my borrowing his thread for this post LOL Sorry

Jester

Last edited by painted jester; 03-21-2013 at 03:54 PM.
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  #160 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2013, 01:48 PM
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My 2 cents.

Hi,

I'm new here, but..............

I agree with what Jester just said.

IMO, you really need a good description of "no bottom end".
Are you (the op) trying to leave a stoplight at part throttle, and have to give it more gas than you think is necessary?
or, are you saying it won't lift the front tires? Or, smoke the rears?

You have one hell of a big cam for a street car, Operative word is "STREET".
246* @.050..... It doesn't really come on to the cam until about 4k rpm, and you're using a "3000" stall converter.............

My recommendation is to either put in a smaller cam (around 230*@.050). That would work with the converter you have.

Or, get a stall converter in the 4500 range.
In the second case, be ready to start buying driveline parts.

This is just MY 2 cents, YMMV.
C'ya, John
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  #161 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2013, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by wyojeepeer View Post
Hi,

I'm new here, but..............

I agree with what Jester just said.

IMO, you really need a good description of "no bottom end".
Are you (the op) trying to leave a stoplight at part throttle, and have to give it more gas than you think is necessary?
or, are you saying it won't lift the front tires? Or, smoke the rears?

You have one hell of a big cam for a street car, Operative word is "STREET".
246* @.050..... It doesn't really come on to the cam until about 4k rpm, and you're using a "3000" stall converter.............

My recommendation is to either put in a smaller cam (around 230*@.050). That would work with the converter you have.

Or, get a stall converter in the 4500 range.
In the second case, be ready to start buying driveline parts.

This is just MY 2 cents, YMMV.
C'ya, John
Exactly. This is what everyone has been telling him for the last 13 pages of this thread but he insists on leaving it as it is.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:37 PM
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again

Hi,

What I was really saying is this is an OBVIOUS (to me) cam/converter mismatch.

There's about three, OK, maybe nine, pages of "locking out the distributer", and comments both ways.

IMO, all of that talk is a band-aid, and I'm not saying it wouldn't help. I just find it funny as heck.

This is not a knock on any of the posters.

C'ya, John
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2013, 04:32 PM
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I'll state this one more time!!!!! NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THAT CONVERTER WILL FLASH STALL AT!!!!!!!!! The weight of the car, the gearing, the diameter of the tires, the RPM band, the torque of the engine flashed on it, its all contributing factors to where it flash stalls it might flash stall at 4000 rpm with that converter???? We have no Idea what that converters flash stall is with his combination!!!!



After the engine tune is in he can do a flash stall test and see if it needs changing!!! You cant do that test if the engine isn't running right!!!! Once the engine is tuned right he can tune the chassis and drive train to what he needs to bring his combination together! We haven't even seen the first trouble shooting test done yet to move to the next step? Why not look at this as the engine is on a running stand or a F.W. Dino that weighs 4000 pounds not in a car LOL tune the engine and then worry about how to set up what its going in and how it effects performance when its installed in a 4000 LB.CAR


Jester

Last edited by painted jester; 03-23-2013 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 03-23-2013, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by painted jester View Post
I'll state this one more time!!!!! NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THAT CONVERTER WILL FLASH STALL AT!!!!!!!!! The weight of the car, the gearing, the diameter of the tires, the RPM band, the torque of the engine flashed on it, its all contributing factors to where it flash stalls it might flash stall at 4000 rpm with that converter???? We have no Idea what that converters flash stall is with his combination!!!!



After the engine tune is in he can do a flash stall test and see if it needs changing!!! You cant do that test if the engine isn't running right!!!! Once the engine is tuned right he can tune the chassis and drive train to what he needs to bring his combination together! We haven't even seen the first trouble shooting test done yet to move to the next step? Why not look at this as the engine is on a running stand or a F.W. Dino that weighs 4000 pounds not in a car LOL tune the engine and then worry about how to set up what its going in and how it effects performance when its installed in a 4000 LB.CAR


Jester
Lmao.....I sense your getting frustrated
And your completely right.....without reading all 13 pages again, did it not say somewhere that he went ahead and bought the e-curve? If so its likely the simplest thing in the world, lock the timing at 34-36, when locked the e-curve has built in start retard so no switches or hassle getting it started ......maybe that's already happened and I missed it?
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2013, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bygddy View Post
Lmao.....I sense your getting frustrated
And your completely right.....without reading all 13 pages again, did it not say somewhere that he went ahead and bought the e-curve? If so its likely the simplest thing in the world, lock the timing at 34-36, when locked the e-curve has built in start retard so no switches or hassle getting it started ......maybe that's already happened and I missed it?
It's happened and it's stalling when put into gear.
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