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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:12 AM
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Any first time builder can make that mistake when ordering pistons because some manufacturers put a C.R on their pistons without knowing a builders specifics of deck, gasket etc!!!

Jester

Example: S.R.P.
SRP 11:1 Forged SBC 350/383 Flat Top Pistons, .020, .030, .040, .060, (6.0" rod) with 3.75
138096 SRP Forged SBC 350/383 Flat Top Pistons 6.0" Rod .020 $499.00
138093 SRP Forged SBC 350/383 Flat Top Pistons 6.0" Rod .030 $499.00
138094 SRP Forged SBC 350/383 Flat Top Pistons 6.0" Rod .040 $499.00
138095 SRP Forged SBC 350/383 Flat Top Pistons 6.0" Rod .060 $499.00

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:31 AM
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Since your engine is in the car do the easiest first !! That would be re curving the dist. initial mid and total with a vacuum advance or initial and centrifugal without one! Try F.B.s lock out first and if it improves we can go down the line with ideas to improve the rest of your problems without changing anything!! You will need a dial back to start it hot and the street manners wont be the greatest when its locked out! But it will eliminate the timing question!!

FB is dead on about the converter! And Jegs was a poor choice but now you have it lets work with what you have!

What kind of driveing did you build this for? Whats your altitude (elevation)? How tall are your rear tires and what speed through the 1/4 or 1/8 are you expecting if you did build it to race!

Jester

Read Cobalts post: "This is one time I will agree to give it a ton of initial timing, even if that means locking the mechanical advance. You can still use (and should use) a vacuum advance. Hook it to ported vacuum if you lock the mechanical advance. Limit the vacuum advance to around 10-12 degrees."

Last edited by painted jester; 02-21-2013 at 12:42 AM.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 06:02 AM
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Yes, not enough stall, gear, or timing for that cam.

Compression is a bit high but the alum heads should make it OK. I ran a similar sized hydro cam, dart iron heads, 11:1 and it worked great for me.

Either drop compression and cam duration OR add stall and gear. The engine will need more timing no matter what you do, so try that first.

I would try 38 total mechanical timing and see what happens (listen for detonation). Are you sure the timing marks on the balancer are correct?

What carb do you have?

Do a compression test and check for a flat cam lobe.

You have a big heavy car there. Don't expect too much.
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:31 AM
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What about the carb. If its rich or lean it can make it run flat at low rpms. Do you get black smoke out of it when you punch it. Should see a little if its properly rich.

430 gears are a good jump from 373. 411/410 would be good bump up if its right and working well.

Sounds like you got it pretty close just needs final tuning. Build seems to be close to what you need for good bracket/street car. I know others have said cam and cr all wrong but its not that far off from what everyone else is running just needs to be tuned and tweaked.

Checking to make sure the cam is at 0 is a good idea but not easy so I would skip it for now. Play with the timing a little and make sure the accelerater pump is set to its strongest setting.

Does the engine lope badly in gear. Usally if the cam is too big it will lope while your driving down the street below 3K rpm. If its smooth it probably just needs tuning.

Proper Solution:
Sometimes its best to bite the bullet and take it to a speed shop for Dyno tuning with EGT and wideband. You can play with it for a month and one day at the shop will sort it all out. On the dyno a proper tuner can tell if its rich lean too much timing or not enough. they will need to weld in egt sensors into the headers. Its no big deal doesnt effect performance but does effect the cost of the runs. Only take it to someone you know is good.

I recommend dyno because your build is running and driving. Sounds like you built the engine right. Other are saying they could have helped but you didnt miss the mark at all it just needs some real deal tuner to sort it out for you. CR may be high but you didnt say what the car was used for so it may be right on the money for bracket car.

Also does it knock if the timing is set above 32?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 10:36 AM
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The cam you should have used would be around 280*- 290* duration for setup you have. Try to change the manifold and carb to a Q-jet carb. The Q-jet setup would give you a strong low end response.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 10:55 AM
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If you could explain in detail Is it non responsive off idle when leaving a stop light idling at 600 rpm? or is it non responsive at the track leaving the tree staged at 2800 rpm and it falls on its face? Do you stomp it at idle and its sluggish till it hits 2500 rpm? If you could explain your engines problem better and exactly what its doing, it would sure help us trouble shoot its problem!

Are you on a tight budget? I'm asking because you bought a Jegs converter and small Summit 1 5/8" primary headers you should have installed 1 7/8"! So I'm thinking you might be scrapping dimes! Its not a bad thing trying to build to a budget But it helps us when suggesting things if we know what kind of budget you have to afford the things like a dino session or a turn back dial!

Jester
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by painted jester View Post
If you could explain in detail Is it non responsive off idle when leaving a stop light idling at 600 rpm? or is it non responsive at the track leaving the tree staged at 2800 rpm and it falls on its face? Do you stomp it at idle and its sluggish till it hits 2500 rpm? If you could explain your engines problem better and exactly what its doing, it would sure help us trouble shoot its problem!

Are you on a tight budget? I'm asking because you bought a Jegs converter and small Summit 1 5/8" primary headers you should have installed 1 7/8"! So I'm thinking you might be scrapping dimes! Its not a bad thing trying to build to a budget But it helps us when suggesting things if we know what kind of budget you have to afford the things like a dino session or a turn back dial!

Jester
Yes I was on a tight budget and its my first build so I was ordering parts that looked good to me for the little bit of knowledge I had....it runs and drives fine it just doesn't have the umph I thought it would have from a standstill and off idle....but she comes alive around 3k...I don't really want to change much on this setup if I don't have to...this is also just a weekend car so gas mileage is no issue
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:16 PM
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I wanna thank everybody for their quick and helpful input so far......this has been the most help I've gotten off of any forum thus far
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:04 PM
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Can you post a few different views of the engine without the air cleaner? right , left , front , and rear. So we can see what we're working on.

Jester
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:52 PM
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I'm running a 400 in my '66 Nova with stock rods and pistons, Vortec cast iron heads. Turbo 350, 2800 stall converter. The cam is a hydraulic flat tappet 280 duration/480 lift, 108 lobe center. I have around 9 to 9.5 compression. It has excellent low-mid range power.

Last edited by Oregonite; 02-21-2013 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:55 PM
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Can you post a few different views of the engine without the air cleaner? right , left , front , and rear. So we can see what we're working on.

Jester
i will post those pics 2morrow just got off work and the car is down at my dads house
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
love to know how he thinks flattops and 64cc=11 to 1 that have to nearly zero deck and no valve releaf's in pistons
I'm not sure its exactly 11:1 but i know its somewhat close.....the block was decked(cant rember how much the machinist said), the heads have been shaved a little,bored .40 over and i think the gasked was .039 thick
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
What about the carb. If its rich or lean it can make it run flat at low rpms. Do you get black smoke out of it when you punch it. Should see a little if its properly rich.

430 gears are a good jump from 373. 411/410 would be good bump up if its right and working well.

Sounds like you got it pretty close just needs final tuning. Build seems to be close to what you need for good bracket/street car. I know others have said cam and cr all wrong but its not that far off from what everyone else is running just needs to be tuned and tweaked.

Checking to make sure the cam is at 0 is a good idea but not easy so I would skip it for now. Play with the timing a little and make sure the accelerater pump is set to its strongest setting.

Does the engine lope badly in gear. Usally if the cam is too big it will lope while your driving down the street below 3K rpm. If its smooth it probably just needs tuning.

Proper Solution:
Sometimes its best to bite the bullet and take it to a speed shop for Dyno tuning with EGT and wideband. You can play with it for a month and one day at the shop will sort it all out. On the dyno a proper tuner can tell if its rich lean too much timing or not enough. they will need to weld in egt sensors into the headers. Its no big deal doesnt effect performance but does effect the cost of the runs. Only take it to someone you know is good.

I recommend dyno because your build is running and driving. Sounds like you built the engine right. Other are saying they could have helped but you didnt miss the mark at all it just needs some real deal tuner to sort it out for you. CR may be high but you didnt say what the car was used for so it may be right on the money for bracket car.

Also does it knock if the timing is set above 32?
i think i will end up biting the bullet and get it dyno tuned
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:10 PM
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Dyno tuning is cheap in what you can accomplish fast. fuel curve and ignition curve is worth the first 3 pulls.Best bet is a mustang dyno over a dynajet
show up with new plugs already in the engine,wires,cap,rotor as required.
spare carb parts or ask if they have a jet board you can buy the tuner replacement jets
powervalves/and air bleeds. Make sure your rear tires are in good shape and speed rated if required.ask the tech what else you can do before he straps down your car.
Tune for torque and keep the air fuel ratio street friendly
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 90caprice408 View Post
Yes I was on a tight budget and its my first build so I was ordering parts that looked good to me for the little bit of knowledge I had....it runs and drives fine it just doesn't have the umph I thought it would have from a standstill and off idle....but she comes alive around 3k...I don't really want to change much on this setup if I don't have to...this is also just a weekend car so gas mileage is no issue
I did something similar to my 406, installed a larger cam with alot of overlap & lost bottom end, even with 4.11s & a 4200 stall i wasn't impressed, had the timing at 37* all in around 2500 rpm, My compression is at 10.4 with 64cc "iron eagles", My piston volume is 8cc, You will be fine on pump gas with 11.1 on "aluminum heads", but your tune needs to be right, plus run a colder plug.

What i did'nt like about my cam was its 108 LSA, your better off with a larger LSA 112-114 with higher compression engines on "pump fuel", I went back to my milder cam & its loaded with torque, It even runs faster ET & MPH with the smaller cam, Its all on how much time you want to spend tuning it, plus your going to need more stall/gears with that cam.

My advice, change the cam, its not that hard,then install something that'll work with your 3000 stall & 3.73 gears, you'll be much-much happier, Heres the cam i'm running with a 2800 stall & 3.73 gears.

Lunati "barebones" line.

465/488, 224/234 @50, 112/107 2000-6000 RPM

Its runs great on 91 octane & 210-215 cranking pressure

It pulls around 16 inches manifold vacuum, sure its a bit mild, but i'm running 12.3s @ 109-110 with this cam.
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