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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by painted jester View Post
Can you post a few different views of the engine without the air cleaner? right , left , front , and rear. So we can see what we're working on.

Jester
i will post those pics 2morrow just got off work and the car is down at my dads house
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
love to know how he thinks flattops and 64cc=11 to 1 that have to nearly zero deck and no valve releaf's in pistons
I'm not sure its exactly 11:1 but i know its somewhat close.....the block was decked(cant rember how much the machinist said), the heads have been shaved a little,bored .40 over and i think the gasked was .039 thick
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
What about the carb. If its rich or lean it can make it run flat at low rpms. Do you get black smoke out of it when you punch it. Should see a little if its properly rich.

430 gears are a good jump from 373. 411/410 would be good bump up if its right and working well.

Sounds like you got it pretty close just needs final tuning. Build seems to be close to what you need for good bracket/street car. I know others have said cam and cr all wrong but its not that far off from what everyone else is running just needs to be tuned and tweaked.

Checking to make sure the cam is at 0 is a good idea but not easy so I would skip it for now. Play with the timing a little and make sure the accelerater pump is set to its strongest setting.

Does the engine lope badly in gear. Usally if the cam is too big it will lope while your driving down the street below 3K rpm. If its smooth it probably just needs tuning.

Proper Solution:
Sometimes its best to bite the bullet and take it to a speed shop for Dyno tuning with EGT and wideband. You can play with it for a month and one day at the shop will sort it all out. On the dyno a proper tuner can tell if its rich lean too much timing or not enough. they will need to weld in egt sensors into the headers. Its no big deal doesnt effect performance but does effect the cost of the runs. Only take it to someone you know is good.

I recommend dyno because your build is running and driving. Sounds like you built the engine right. Other are saying they could have helped but you didnt miss the mark at all it just needs some real deal tuner to sort it out for you. CR may be high but you didnt say what the car was used for so it may be right on the money for bracket car.

Also does it knock if the timing is set above 32?
i think i will end up biting the bullet and get it dyno tuned
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:10 PM
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Dyno tuning is cheap in what you can accomplish fast. fuel curve and ignition curve is worth the first 3 pulls.Best bet is a mustang dyno over a dynajet
show up with new plugs already in the engine,wires,cap,rotor as required.
spare carb parts or ask if they have a jet board you can buy the tuner replacement jets
powervalves/and air bleeds. Make sure your rear tires are in good shape and speed rated if required.ask the tech what else you can do before he straps down your car.
Tune for torque and keep the air fuel ratio street friendly
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 90caprice408 View Post
Yes I was on a tight budget and its my first build so I was ordering parts that looked good to me for the little bit of knowledge I had....it runs and drives fine it just doesn't have the umph I thought it would have from a standstill and off idle....but she comes alive around 3k...I don't really want to change much on this setup if I don't have to...this is also just a weekend car so gas mileage is no issue
I did something similar to my 406, installed a larger cam with alot of overlap & lost bottom end, even with 4.11s & a 4200 stall i wasn't impressed, had the timing at 37* all in around 2500 rpm, My compression is at 10.4 with 64cc "iron eagles", My piston volume is 8cc, You will be fine on pump gas with 11.1 on "aluminum heads", but your tune needs to be right, plus run a colder plug.

What i did'nt like about my cam was its 108 LSA, your better off with a larger LSA 112-114 with higher compression engines on "pump fuel", I went back to my milder cam & its loaded with torque, It even runs faster ET & MPH with the smaller cam, Its all on how much time you want to spend tuning it, plus your going to need more stall/gears with that cam.

My advice, change the cam, its not that hard,then install something that'll work with your 3000 stall & 3.73 gears, you'll be much-much happier, Heres the cam i'm running with a 2800 stall & 3.73 gears.

Lunati "barebones" line.

465/488, 224/234 @50, 112/107 2000-6000 RPM

Its runs great on 91 octane & 210-215 cranking pressure

It pulls around 16 inches manifold vacuum, sure its a bit mild, but i'm running 12.3s @ 109-110 with this cam.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 11:46 PM
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Before you spend the money on a dyno, you should try timing it by ear. Advance the timing until you get a slight ping under acceleration, then retard the timing just to where it doesn't ping. You might be surprised with what you end up with.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2013, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJM97Z View Post
I did something similar to my 406, installed a larger cam with alot of overlap & lost bottom end, even with 4.11s & a 4200 stall i wasn't impressed, had the timing at 37* all in around 2500 rpm, My compression is at 10.4 with 64cc "iron eagles", My piston volume is 8cc, You will be fine on pump gas with 11.1 on "aluminum heads", but your tune needs to be right, plus run a colder plug.

What i did'nt like about my cam was its 108 LSA, your better off with a larger LSA 112-114 with higher compression engines on "pump fuel", I went back to my milder cam & its loaded with torque, It even runs faster ET & MPH with the smaller cam, Its all on how much time you want to spend tuning it, plus your going to need more stall/gears with that cam.

My advice, change the cam, its not that hard,then install something that'll work with your 3000 stall & 3.73 gears, you'll be much-much happier, Heres the cam i'm running with a 2800 stall & 3.73 gears.

Lunati "barebones" line.

465/488, 224/234 @50, 112/107 2000-6000 RPM

Its runs great on 91 octane & 210-215 cranking pressure

It pulls around 16 inches manifold vacuum, sure its a bit mild, but i'm running 12.3s @ 109-110 with this cam.
Didn't really want to change anything in the engine i'm trying to get the most from what I have already
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2013, 08:10 AM
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LJM97Z
could you show me the math to back up your post please? I run a bigger cam and less gear and have no bottom end problems.You say 108 LSA is not as good as 112-114 LSA? Please show me the math for this calculation? please also explain why rear gears make a difference to tuning an engine?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90caprice408 View Post
Didn't really want to change anything in the engine i'm trying to get the most from what I have already
If you stick with us we will all help tune it in without changing parts!

Jester
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90caprice408 View Post
i think i will end up biting the bullet and get it dyno tuned

If your on a tight budget, some collages with an auto coarse have dinos call and check they don't charge labor, and use outside cars to teach the course, and will dino your car free!

Jester

What diameter rear tires do run with the 3.73 gear?
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2013, 01:31 PM
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I guess its a lot easier to post 3 or 4 pages of nonsense on teh internet than spend 10minutes to go to the garage and simply lock out the HEI's advance system so it cannot move, by binding it tight using two common plastic Zip ties,
and stick the rotor back on. Stick the weights and springs in your tool box.
reset the now fixed locked timing to 36deg BTDC and go for a ride.

It is just that simple.

Or .... you need a cam,, you need a dyno tune,,,, you need gears.... yad yada yada.

10 pages later
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2013, 01:59 PM
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fbird88? whats the matter? you almost treat members with what appears to be some disdain?

You usually offer great advice with details. lately the details have dwindled. Not one single time in the almost eight thousand posts have you ever thanked anyone?
You also have to remember people like Chris,Gary,and many others understand exactly what you have in mind when you say to lock out timing,and why you say it.A lot of new members do not.People hire professionals all the time,even if they themselves are professional.
I agree with most of what you post,most of the time and I think you have a lot to offer. I just hope w/e is bothering you passes soon,,,,
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2013, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by painted jester View Post
If your on a tight budget, some collages with an auto coarse have dinos call and check they don't charge labor, and use outside cars to teach the course, and will dino your car free!

Jester

What diameter rear tires do run with the 3.73 gear?
I gave a 215 70 15 tire on there now
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2013, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
I guess its a lot easier to post 3 or 4 pages of nonsense on teh internet than spend 10minutes to go to the garage and simply lock out the HEI's advance system so it cannot move, by binding it tight using two common plastic Zip ties,
and stick the rotor back on. Stick the weights and springs in your tool box.
reset the now fixed locked timing to 36deg BTDC and go for a ride.

It is just that simple.

Or .... you need a cam,, you need a dyno tune,,,, you need gears.... yad yada yada.

10 pages later
The first description u put up about locking out the timing did not seem that simple.....but if that all it takes that will definitely be the first step
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2013, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90caprice408 View Post
I gave a 215 70 15 tire on there now
215-70R15 = 6.0 in tread pattern 26.9" dia. 751 revolutions per mile

Can I ask? how old are you? And whats your location? Is it a cold climate or high elevation?

Jester

Last edited by painted jester; 02-22-2013 at 03:27 PM.
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