Vin swap - firewall swap - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Hotrodding Basics
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 02:38 PM
KenCam's Avatar
Grease Monkey Wanabe
 

Last journal entry: ALL IS LOST!
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Murray KY
Posts: 95
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Vin swap - firewall swap

The car I'm rebuilding is a 77 Camaro. The doner car is a 75 Camaro. The body of the 77 is a mess and little was salvageable except the firewall/dash. My question is how much of the firewall needs to be replaced in order for the car to be legal? I'd hate to warp the car. I could lift the top plate off the firewall but is that enough.
BTW. I also have the front frame with has the other vin# from the 77.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 03:09 PM
xntrik's Avatar
Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenCam
The car I'm rebuilding is a 77 Camaro. The doner car is a 75 Camaro. The body of the 77 is a mess and little was salvageable except the firewall/dash. My question is how much of the firewall needs to be replaced in order for the car to be legal? I'd hate to warp the car. I could lift the top plate off the firewall but is that enough. BTW. I also have the front frame with has the other vin# from the 77.
So you are not actually rebuilding the 77, but putting the 77 VIN plate onto the 75. What is wrong with the 75 title?

I'm guessing that if you renumber the 75 as a 77 and you get caught, you are probably going to need the services of a very good lawyer. Especially if you ever sell the car.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 03:16 PM
KenCam's Avatar
Grease Monkey Wanabe
 

Last journal entry: ALL IS LOST!
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Murray KY
Posts: 95
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The 77 has sentimental value. It was my sisters car. (found in a field after her death) I salvaged all I could of it and I plan to use every part I possibly can but the cab was a mess. The firewall and some metal in the back was all I could salvage. It would be easy for me to just rebuild the 75. It is relatively rust free and runs pretty well but it wouldn't be my sisters car.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 03:16 PM
xntrik's Avatar
Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I suggest calling your local State Trooper Headquarters and telling them that you have 2 wrecked cars and you want to make one car out of them... and ask how to handle the VINs? Write down exactly who you talk to and ask where you can get the information in writing from the state.

It won't really be her car anyway.... will it?

Good luck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 03:19 PM
KenCam's Avatar
Grease Monkey Wanabe
 

Last journal entry: ALL IS LOST!
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Murray KY
Posts: 95
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik

It won't really be her car anyway.... will it?
It will be as close as I can make it.

Thanks for the reply. I will make the call.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 04:35 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Wheelbase database Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,618
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 6
Thanked 163 Times in 150 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenCam
It will be as close as I can make it.

Thanks for the reply. I will make the call.
Contrary to popular belief, it is NOT illegal under Federal law to swap a VIN tag if you are either the owner or a repair shop and the VIN tag movement is reasonably required for a repair (and of course you need to legally own all the parts you're swapping). The applicable federal law is Title 18 of United States Code, Chapter 25, Section 511. You can read it for yourself here:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...Cite:+18USC511

There are a lot of double and triple negatives in the text, but the bottom line is that it is illegal to swap VIN plates with the intent to commit fraud. The legal owner of the vehicle or a designated repair shop IS allowed to remove and replace the VIN tag if such removal and replacement "...is reasonably necessary for the repair...". I had a long talk with the vendor selling the repro Camaro bodies at Carlisle last summer and as a business owner you can bet he has had his lawyer research this in detail.

Think about it this way. Say you own a brand new GM pickup and a tree falls on the cab. You can run down to the GM dealer and buy a brand new body-in-white cab. This new cab does not come with a VIN tag - you must swap the one from your old crushed cab. One caveat is that state law may override federal in this instance, so be sure you know the requirements in your specific state.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 04:41 PM
KenCam's Avatar
Grease Monkey Wanabe
 

Last journal entry: ALL IS LOST!
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Murray KY
Posts: 95
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the info!
I will still call the KY HP to get more info but you have set my mind at ease.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 04:56 PM
xntrik's Avatar
Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
QUOTE

....replace the VIN tag if such removal and replacement "...is reasonably necessary for the repair...".

QUOTE

There's the phrase. REASONABLY NECESSARY.

Can you take the plate out of squashed car and weld it into a good car of a different year?........ mmmmmmm?

Please post back on this thread and let us know what you find out. I am curious about KY.

Down here you have to have both titles and submit them to the state for retitling as one vehicle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 05:08 PM
poncho62's Avatar
Out of the Loop Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Streetbeasts links
Last journal entry: at car show
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hanover, Ontario, Canada
Age: 62
Posts: 16,976
Wiki Edits: 5

Thanks: 22
Thanked 316 Times in 244 Posts
Which body are you using?

That is what I would be going by............the firewall is only a small part of the main body.
__________________
Ontario Rodders
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 07:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: rio de janeiro
Posts: 157
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I just swapped VINs between 2 Camaros.One of those cases where the main body on one was so much better that economically it was the intelligent thing to do.Both cars belonged to the same client.Actually 3 Camaros.We made 1 out of 3.And to tell you the truth,I do not fell bad at all.As a honest and dedicated restorer,to me the main body is just another part.In this particular car the whole dash can be unbolted and transplanted.I am not in the States but it would be illegal here too.And these cars do not have VIN codes stamped elsewhere.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2007, 09:16 AM
KenCam's Avatar
Grease Monkey Wanabe
 

Last journal entry: ALL IS LOST!
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Murray KY
Posts: 95
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I know what I'm doing is a bit crazy. The body of the 75 is pretty nice (except around the back glass) and I have the title for it. My sisters 77 is a complete disaster and I don't have the title. The 77's body is way too far gone. If I were to rebuild it (not that I have the knowledge to do so) I would end up with pretty much everything new except the firewall. I thought switching them would be an easier solution. Especially since I was going to have to buy a parts car anyway.

I'll try and call about it today.

Hey paulo1, I was under the impression that there is a vin# on the front frame. I haven't found it yet but mine is covered in undercoat and rust. I could be wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2007, 09:47 AM
poncho62's Avatar
Out of the Loop Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Streetbeasts links
Last journal entry: at car show
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hanover, Ontario, Canada
Age: 62
Posts: 16,976
Wiki Edits: 5

Thanks: 22
Thanked 316 Times in 244 Posts
If the 75 is better and you have a title, it only makes sense to go with it...I know the sentimental attachment is there, but you can put as much of your sisters car on the 75 as you can....Only you will know the difference.
__________________
Ontario Rodders
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2007, 11:35 AM
farna's Avatar
Member
 
Last wiki edit: AMC V-8s Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Batesburg-Leesville, SC
Age: 52
Posts: 1,639
Wiki Edits: 14

Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
I agree with the last statement. Build a replica of your sisters car using the 75 and whatever parts you can from the 77. There isn't much point in transferring the VIN plate if you have the title for the 75. If you did use the 77 VIN plate once you apply for a title it will have your name on it.

You'd be better off to make a plaque with the 77 VIN and title (if you have it -- should still have your sister's name on it?) or a photo of your sister and/or the original car, and a plate saying it's a replica built to honor your sister's memory. The VIN and title won't matter in any case -- no one remembers that the VIN was hers, they remember the car itself. If it looks like her car and people recall it, that's all that matters.

As far as legality... if you own both cars, and you're not doing the swap to circumvent some kind of law (such as emissions -- if 75 is exempt and 77 isn't, you'd have a hard time convincing a cop/judge that wasn't your intent...) or sell a stolen car, I'd do it without saying a word to anyone. Someone has to have reason to complain and bring charges. The only way that might happen is if you're involved in a wreck. The insurance company could claim the car was illegally operated and therefore your policy is invalid. But they would have to know about or have reason to suspect the swap.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2007, 12:33 PM
OneMoreTime's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: Yard Dog pic
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Age: 70
Posts: 7,474
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 66
Thanked 167 Times in 156 Posts
I agree with Ponch and Farna..I woudl build the 75 in honor of my sister..paint it and detail it like the 77 was..and do the dash plaques deal..

In the veterans area we do this to commemorate a fellow that was lost..

Sam
__________________
I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2007, 01:13 PM
Magnus_Jager's Avatar
Tow Chainer
 
Last wiki edit: Rebuilding an early Hemi engine
Last journal entry: cruise pics
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Western NYS
Age: 44
Posts: 245
Wiki Edits: 2

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo 1
As a honest and dedicated restorer,to me the main body is just another part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo 1
I am not in the States but it would be illegal here too.
Wow.....

Reminds me of a discussion on vette motor stamping from a while back...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hotrodding Basics posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1953 Chevy Truck Vin Help Homeseller Hotrodding Basics 14 08-12-2012 10:24 AM
"Basics of Basics" Sectioning a Body MARTINSR Body - Exterior 7 11-24-2008 01:04 PM
32 Ford Firewall deere Body - Exterior 4 11-10-2006 09:57 PM
Chop and channeling. how to....? baugh353 Body - Exterior 15 02-07-2006 08:21 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.