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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2011, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectman69
How exactly would you accurately shave off 3/32" from the retainer if I were to keep the stock retainers?
You would take them to a machine shop that has a blanchard grinder or surface grinder. The table is magnetic to hold the retainers down to the pad and a fellow would add a "fence" of steel bars around the retainers to prevent them being ejected under the force of being cut with the stone. Here are pics of blanchard grinders...
http://www.google.com/search?q=blanc...w=1280&bih=643
And here are pics of surface grinders...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&n...55l5-1.8-1l2l0

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2011, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
You would take them to a machine shop that has a blanchard grinder or surface grinder. The table is magnetic to hold the retainers down to the pad and a fellow would add a "fence" of steel bars around the retainers to prevent them being ejected under the force of being cut with the stone. Here are pics of blanchard grinders...
http://www.google.com/search?q=blanc...w=1280&bih=643
And here are pics of surface grinders...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&n...55l5-1.8-1l2l0
Okay thanks i'll look into that also.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2011, 11:47 AM
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Okay so I have been looking for those daytona seals and the only ones I can find are the omni ones?? Are these two models like the same thing?
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2011, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectman69
Okay so I have been looking for those daytona seals and the only ones I can find are the omni ones?? Are these two models like the same thing?
IIRC both these cars used the 2.2L turbo.

You need to find the dimensions of the seals- especially the ID to see if they'll fit the stock Vortec guide boss. Seals aren't particularly expensive and if they don't fit and you bought them from a local parts store, they should have no prob taking them back if they don't fit.

Why don't you find out what the original application is for the retainers HERE? lol

Last edited by cobalt327; 09-28-2011 at 09:21 PM.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2011, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
IIRC both these cars used the 2.2L turbo.

You need to find the dimensions of the seals- especially the ID to see if they'll fit the stock Vortec guide boss. Seals aren't particularly expensive and if they don't fit and you bought them from a local parts store, they should have no prob taking them back if they don't fit.

Why don't you find out what the original application is for the retainers HERE? lol
Thank you so much!! I was looking on ebay for 2 hours and couldn't find anything. That is probably what I'm going to use. Once again thanks!!!
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2011, 07:59 PM
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Cobalt , is correct. The series 2 v6 gmp beehive springs, retainers, and umbrella seals will get you the clearance. The progressive spring rate and reduced recirpcating wt is a bonus. There will be benefits.

My installed cams are under .450 lift , but have confidence in the info . Look at the set up on my 305.

On a 360 the magnum heads can take the same valvetrain. The gmp beehives ,retainers, and viton seals work. Add a mp5249549 204/208 cam 1.6 rockers at .458/467 lift adds 46hp and 51 lbs to the magnum 300hp crate. That is not peanuts. A stones throw from the radical 380 crate, and smooth.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn
Cobalt , is correct. The series 2 v6 gmp beehive springs, retainers, and umbrella seals will get you the clearance. The progressive spring rate and reduced recirpcating wt is a bonus. There will be benefits.

My installed cams are under .450 lift , but have confidence in the info . Look at the set up on my 305.

On a 360 the magnum heads can take the same valvetrain. The gmp beehives ,retainers, and viton seals work. Add a mp5249549 204/208 cam 1.6 rockers at .458/467 lift adds 46hp and 51 lbs to the magnum 300hp crate. That is not peanuts. A stones throw from the radical 380 crate, and smooth.
What are the specs on those springs- seat and open pressure? And what brand of headers are those? Look like they fit well.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:55 PM
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The spring measurements were a mess. My equipment is not good, and work space is tight.

The 1.6" IH , measured with the 3100 retainers, that would yield a seat pressure of 124lb, and a .5" lift pressure of 306lb. The completed seat pressure is less cause the inst ht is 1.8 , these numbers are +/- bad testing equip. Got me a ball park and went with it. Have no cash, sometimes you have to experiment.

GM part numbers for these components are 10166343 for the valvesprings, and 10166344 for the retainers.

Summit headers 89 , and the fit is great. Nothing hangs down.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2011, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn
The spring measurements were a mess. My equipment is not good, and work space is tight.

The 1.6" IH , measured with the 3100 retainers, that would yield a seat pressure of 124lb, and a .5" lift pressure of 306lb. The completed seat pressure is less cause the inst ht is 1.8 , these numbers are +/- bad testing equip. Got me a ball park and went with it. Have no cash, sometimes you have to experiment.

GM part numbers for these components are 10166343 for the valvesprings, and 10166344 for the retainers.

Summit headers 89 , and the fit is great. Nothing hangs down.
Thanks. What does the "89" mean in the "Summit headers 89"? Do you recall the part number? What are they on- looks like maybe a Chevy truck?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2011, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn
The spring measurements were a mess. My equipment is not good, and work space is tight.

The 1.6" IH , measured with the 3100 retainers, that would yield a seat pressure of 124lb, and a .5" lift pressure of 306lb. The completed seat pressure is less cause the inst ht is 1.8 , these numbers are +/- bad testing equip. Got me a ball park and went with it. Have no cash, sometimes you have to experiment.

GM part numbers for these components are 10166343 for the valvesprings, and 10166344 for the retainers.

Summit headers 89 , and the fit is great. Nothing hangs down.
Aren't those retainers and locks for a 8mm valve? The springs could work but I don't think the retainers and locks will.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2011, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Thanks. What does the "89" mean in the "Summit headers 89"?
I'm guessing "89" is the cost.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
Aren't those retainers and locks for a 8mm valve? The springs could work but I don't think the retainers and locks will.
My take on the retainers is that, yes- they are used w/8mm valves. But as long as the ID of the retainer (where the locks sit) is the same as the retainer for the 11/32" valve (we know they're both 7), the retainers will work fine- provided you use the 11/32" locks and not try to use the 8mm locks.

This question also came up in THIS thread, although it was never really answered. But if my theory isn't correct, Spin would have surely dropped valves by now- provided that he has actually run this engine.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2011, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I'm guessing "89" is the cost.


My take on the retainers is that, yes- they are used w/8mm valves. But as long as the ID of the retainer (where the locks sit) is the same as the retainer for the 11/32" valve (we know they're both 7), the retainers will work fine- provided you use the 11/32" locks and not try to use the 8mm locks.

This question also came up in THIS thread, although it was never really answered. But if my theory isn't correct, Spin would have surely dropped valves by now- provided that he has actually run this engine.
I'm pretty certain the ID is reduced for the smaller valvestem diameter, it is on all aftermarket 8mm retainers I can find, AND it is on the stock LS retainers. You could assemble it with 11/32 locks and incorrect retainers, it would just drastically reduce your installed height.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2011, 09:30 AM
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It's hard to tell exactly, but looking at his photo below (from the thread I linked to above), the top of the locks do look to be protruding a bit more than usual from the 3100 retainers. If that is the case, the ID of the 3100 retainer may be smaller and this will reduce the I/H of the spring- but I don't know what the 3100 retainer design will give for an I/H when used on the Vortec head, w/11/32" locks. For all I know, the 3100 retainer and the 11/32" locks might have a combined I/H of 1.8" or more- I can't tell from Spin's posts what's up w/that.

But- in ANY event I would have serious reservations using a set-up that didn't provide full engagement of the locks into the retainer's ID. I'd like to have a 3100 retainer and locks to measure. Just by looking at the 3100 locks should show easily if they're the same or thicker than the 11/32" locks- which they'd have to be (thicker that is) to work on a 8mm stem, yet have the same OD as a 11/32" lock.

It looks like what may be needed here, is a lock designed for the 3100 retainer's ID and the 11/32" valve stem's OD- unless that would make the locks too thin to be stable.


Last edited by cobalt327; 09-30-2011 at 09:38 AM.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2011, 10:11 AM
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Summit makes a number of headers, coatings , etc. Clearing up, that these are the basic $89 buck headers for a 85 gm truck.

The inside retainer dia must be the same from votx retainer to v6 retainer, or work with the v6 locks. There might be an extra retainer somewhere, if found the measurements will be posted. The seal part number is not on the reciept, but will post that when it comes to light.

For posterity my crap measurements are saved. My spring measurements could not be repeated every time. My tools are junk.

free length 1.94"
Installed at 1.8 they were about 95lb seat and open 275 at .500
Installed at 1.6 it was 125 and 305

To clear up , the safe running lift is not 1/2" , the seal is going to touch. Lifts of .450-.460" cleared on votex heads with seals.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2011, 10:20 AM
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Spinn, have you run this engine hard yet?
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