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Old 10-08-2005, 06:38 PM
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Want 12 volts ,have 2 6 volt batteries.

Hi;SOme of the fellows were helping me with this on other site but more appropriatte here I think!Started as question about fan but progressed to using electric fan.Problem is that although I have 2 6 volt batteries they are parrell?still produce onbly 6 volts-POSITIVE grd too[Ford]System has a series parrell switch to provide 12 volts to the starter but that is the only 12 v it provides.Now I have been told that the electric fans are all plastic and do not grouind to the car body?12 volt ones are easy to find 6s are muchmore rare!I have been told can cross?the wires for 12 volts on a fan as long as there is no ground to the car and that with the plastic fan set-ups could do this?Been sitting looking at the car and can't figure out how this would be poossible!!Cheking with my voltmer no 12v anywhere i could find and can't see how to series the wires with this system?All I would have to do is swich wires on one battery and have all kinds of 12 but the 6v car wouldn't like that real well!Thats what the switch does but only for a moment to operate the 12 v starter
The future probably holds a Ron Francis wireloom but now trying to do a simple way.That switch really throws people for a loop,Was common in trucking industry and when we had to drive 6 volt cars for our daily transportation here in the north,but that was in the good old days!!

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Old 10-08-2005, 07:08 PM
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You ought to just use a 12 volt battery and put a tap on the third cell for your 6 volt stuff to connect to.
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Old 10-08-2005, 07:38 PM
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I'm sure that Doc Vette will pick up on this thread soon ... he seems to be the local electrical wizard.

I'm thinking that this could be done using diodes somehow to isolate the series connection and provide 12V to just this component (especially since it's not grounded), but that's just a WAG (wildassguess)
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:00 PM
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Well my thinking is...Why have two batteries? One 12 volt will do it and you can tapp off of the third cell for 6 volts. Then you don't need the switching device or diodes or anything. Every cell in a 12 volt battery is 2 volts or 2.2 something like that. A lot of streetrodders tap there 12 volt on the third cell to get 6 volts to run thier original 6 volt guages etc.
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Highrise
Every cell in a 12 volt battery is 2 volts or 2.2 something like that. A lot of streetrodders tap there 12 volt on the third cell to get 6 volts to run thier original 6 volt guages etc.
OK ... but I hadn't heard of that.

How do you "tap" a battery ... drill a hole in it?
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:19 PM
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Convert it to 12 volts.....It works better, and cheaper in the long run.
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho62
Convert it to 12 volts.....It works better, and cheaper in the long run.
My ex-boss was an electrical wiz as well.

Several old farm tractors were 6V and he used to suggest switching to 12V w/ GM alternator as well. Several asked "What about the starter?" His reply was that 6V starters usually worked better on 12V ... as long as you didn't crank them for extended periods.
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:30 PM
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He told you right! I have converted several tractors and never had a problem using the 6 volt starters on 12 volts. If you have them tuned right you should not need to stay on the starter very long anyway.
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:58 PM
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Hi;Ya!I thinking that is the best to just use 12 volt system but this is what was on it.Actually it is a 12 volt Cad V-8 engine just in a 48 Contintal.Was just trying to utilize the existing system.Also has a Delco-Remy Alt converted to 6 volt positive too.With the 2 batteries wouldn't have to drill anything to get a 6 volt.Also need to then switch to negative ground if really going to 12 v.I guess this isn't a problem they tell me except for the fuel gauge and mine doesn't work anyway.I guess the electric isn't to concerned over which way it flows?Was just trying to figure how to coexisit with this system till I got some more urgent thigs fixed like the heating problems etc.Which gets back to the original issue with fans.
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Old 10-08-2005, 09:48 PM
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Simple Temporary fix..

Doc here,

The simple Temporary Fix if your planning to go to an upgraded harness soon..Is:

Get a 12 to 6 volt ceramic Dropping resistor, Or the newer version, a dropping module..

Isolate your main fuse buss off the battery side (the wires that runs the whole car) and put the drop between it, and the 12 volt battery.

Be advised..I Don't like this method for anything but Temporary and hardly ever recommend it..but here it has some Merritt..I advocate the "all or nothing at all" approach.

You can direct wire 12 volts and 6 will go through the resistor or module, and it won't care anything about where ground is (all common, unless it's a postive ground, then all must follow suit or switch.)..

DC Electric motors, while can perform at 125% rated voltage, (6 on 12 volts) fairly well for a while, I do not recommend it on an upgrade..Because it severely lessens the service life of the motor..

Brushes pit and burn, windings origanally wound for 6 volt resistance dissipation, are now dissipating resistance at 12 volts..Etc..

If you want to leave them in there until they blow, then upgrade, that's OK, but expect that to happen! I suggest do it all at the same time...not in the parking lot at the grocery store..

When you install your fans, Don't forget Proper Fuse links, and Relays..to avoid meltdowns...

AND make sure your FAN motors are isolated off ground (mounts) if it's a positive ground...otherwise it will run backwards, you will have to bolt the red to the frame, and run the black back to source current to make it run right, If not isolated, it will be a dead short.

AND if you separate systems for awhile, a fuse buss for 12 volts to be safe..

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Old 10-08-2005, 10:22 PM
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Hi Doc:My problem here is trying to get 12 from an in effect 6 volt battery.The series parrall switch provides the 12 volt needed for the starter but that is only when starter is activated!Seems relatively easy to go the other way fromn 12 to 6,there seem to be many alternatives for that.I did now find a source for a 6 volt fan a C&G Ford they have 2 sizes so maybe I should just do that till the time when I switch the whole system to 12 volts.Cost twice as much as a 12 volt one but guess would be lot simpler and if I ever switch over probably could sell it.In that case any opinions on pusher fans compared to puller ones.Both are same size and cost!
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Old 10-09-2005, 04:31 AM
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My idea

Doc here,

My Idea here is simply get a 12 volt battery (or both 6's tied together) and split the buss..through a dropping resistor...

(actually you wouldn't need it if you have 2~ 6 volts in SERIES to create 12 volts)

Then hooked SERIES PARALLEL to allow 6 and 12 volts to different busses... I.E. tap the first 6 volt battery for 6 volts (The Body), then using the combination of the 2 to run a 12 volt buss..(The Engine & ACC)

Split busses are a way of inviting trouble, (this is why I don't advocate them) by later down the road, hooking a 12 volt wire where it should NOT be...and burning components up...and the reverse is true, where a component barely operates (under voltage) or won't run at all...

And to add more "Stuff" into the game..the reverse polarity is a heartbreak waiting to happen with modern equipment..

While a light bulb or motor or coil non polarity sensitive, ( not diode strapped, or capacitor bridged to give it polarity) Does not care WHICH direction power or grounds come from...Semi Conductor devises DO...

Reverse the leads on an electrolytic capacitor, and it will heat and explode..Do the same on a diode and it won't conduct...and on a linear op amp...you let the smoke out!

HEI's can't work with them (unless you SERIOUSLY mod it) .., And ANY semi conductor equipment will not (unless totally Isolated off ground and reverse wired ) will burn up..and if it is isolated an accidental touch to ground will destroy that unit..

you must keep a step ahead when installing new equipment, like a tach for instance...the red wire must go to the frame, the black to a fuse..and the physical mount must be made on a rubber pad, with no screws that can touch ground!

Too much to go wrong...I suggest to most. ONE voltage with Negative Ground..to make it easy and safe...
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Old 10-09-2005, 06:35 AM
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HI;Think the best bet is to go to a12volt neg system but unsure of problems involved.Have been told that it is no big deal.Use some type of reduction and leave 6v on gauges and that only the fuel gauge will be a problem!Change bulbs etc,BUT the O/D has solenoid operation and the top and windows operate off a electric pump,looks like a starter motor with a pump on it and are also solenoid operated,What would it do to these?Again when I asked someone about the 12v starter on positive grd they said the motor doesn't really care but the pump is of course a 6 volt motor but except while top going up runs for very short bursts!Presently will have time to think about this as getting ready to head for Az before it starts snowing here,try to avoid the stuff!!Also getting paranoid now that moved one battery to trunk thinking what if wire chafes thru.Ran wires internally thru the boxed frame.Should there be some kind of fusing used on that wire?Again thanks for all the assistance really is a big help!!!
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