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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child View Post
We are, in the US, in a dilemma. It's about whether you want something or not. Yes, you might be able to find the same item with made in the USA stamped on it, but at what cost to you in time and actual cash outlay. The much admired Snap-on tools are one example. There are some that still say made in USA, but there are getting to be more and more that don't have that stamp. Go to your local steel supplier - much will say Canada or Korea (actually much of the Canadian steel is from Korea, but rolled in Canada). What can we as individuals do about that? At this point, not very dang much since almost all major manufacturing has become international - and it does have to do with the bottom line and pure survival as a company. Like Gearhead in several posts keeps saying to buy American. I agree with him. Unfortunately it just cannot be done. Look at your automobile. Parts come from everywhere - and at the lowest cost possible so that it will still be sold to people at something close to reasonable. Why have companies done this - union labor costs mostly. That is hourly wages, health care, other benefits then add in the costs of pension funds. Those are the underlying reasons why GM and Chrysler failed with the government bailout that is still costing all of us every time we send the IRS some of our tax dollars. Those benefits were negotiated - but the unions WILL NOT give up a nickles worth to save an industry, automobile, clothing or other goods. Am I anti union? Not really, I'm anti corruption and corrupt is exactly what many unions have become. Think of how union dues are spent. Not really benefiting the worker are they when so many of the dollars are spent on political programs. Oh well, we allowed our politicians of the past to make sweetheart deals with other countries, just try to get them thrown out or changed. 'nuff said by me. I'll buy what and where for what I need - it's w-a-a-a-y beyond any control I can change beyond the voting booth and speaking to NY's government officials (with the exception of Upchuck Shumer and Giggles Gillibrand) which I do regularly.

Dave W


You are so right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
the problem I have is the ones that buy by price are the same ones that are the loudest when channel lock or vise grip move the factory over the boarder and someones buddy,brother,cus lost their job..
REMEMBER YOU ARE FEEDING THAT MONSTER
There is a big difference between walking into an Italian restaurant and them putting a plate of Chow Mein in front of you, and walking into a Chinese restaurant and getting what you expect, Chow Mein!

There is a place for everything, there always has been. You could buy a cheaper version of stuff for years, but the good stuff was made here and they proudly told you so.

Now they slyly behind our back have taken up production in other countries and that sickens me.

Brian

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child View Post
We are, in the US, in a dilemma. It's about whether you want something or not. Yes, you might be able to find the same item with made in the USA stamped on it, but at what cost to you in time and actual cash outlay. The much admired Snap-on tools are one example. There are some that still say made in USA, but there are getting to be more and more that don't have that stamp. Go to your local steel supplier - much will say Canada or Korea (actually much of the Canadian steel is from Korea, but rolled in Canada). What can we as individuals do about that? At this point, not very dang much since almost all major manufacturing has become international - and it does have to do with the bottom line and pure survival as a company. Like Gearhead in several posts keeps saying to buy American. I agree with him. Unfortunately it just cannot be done. Look at your automobile. Parts come from everywhere - and at the lowest cost possible so that it will still be sold to people at something close to reasonable. Why have companies done this - union labor costs mostly. That is hourly wages, health care, other benefits then add in the costs of pension funds. Those are the underlying reasons why GM and Chrysler failed with the government bailout that is still costing all of us every time we send the IRS some of our tax dollars. Those benefits were negotiated - but the unions WILL NOT give up a nickles worth to save an industry, automobile, clothing or other goods. Am I anti union? Not really, I'm anti corruption and corrupt is exactly what many unions have become. Think of how union dues are spent. Not really benefiting the worker are they when so many of the dollars are spent on political programs. Oh well, we allowed our politicians of the past to make sweetheart deals with other countries, just try to get them thrown out or changed. 'nuff said by me. I'll buy what and where for what I need - it's w-a-a-a-y beyond any control I can change beyond the voting booth and speaking to NY's government officials (with the exception of Upchuck Shumer and Giggles Gillibrand) which I do regularly.

Dave W
very well said.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
what it all comes down to is your work. It's either good or it isn't. I'll use whatever tool I choose to get the job done. Is there more of an issue of DIY'ers not having the right tools over the importance of doing it right? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion. I think if you stay open to good and cheap tools you end up ahead at the end of the month.
You are very right, people can do an awful lot with next no nothing, look at what they do in third world countries. That buffer is a great example of your point, but you also could bring up a dozen other tools that could seriously frustrate a newbe and THINK it's him! How about tin snips, cheapie tin snips would never let you trim off a hair wide piece off the edge like Werners will, how about that MIG plier I started this thread with, the newbe would think he is doing something wrong when that plier doesn't cut wire or clean his nozzle out properly. How about locking pliers, I bought a few small pairs from HF years ago, I literally through the in the garbage after I found they didn't lock more than what I could do with my bare hands, if that! The newbe would think he is doing something wrong when he is trying to clamp something tight to weld. How about the one of those cheapie Impacts that won't even brake a 1/4" bolt loose? Heck, I have guys at work who don't have a 1/2" impact that has as much torque as my high end MAC and need to barrow it all the time. A good tool makes life easier,I don't care who you are.

If the newbe only knew which ones like you and I do. That is the trick, that is why the blanket statement "Good tools allow you to do this work better and easier" is true. If the newbe only knew that the problems he is having trying to remove screws is because his junk screw driver is rounding them off. If he only knew that the 3/8 butterfly impact from a quality company would "hit" much better and get rusted bolts out better than the cheapie he is using that doesn't remove them and he thinks he is not doing it right, or the bolt is better than him when with the quality tool would show him HE is better than that bolt!

Quality tools are better than cheap ones, that is all we are saying. And as you point out learn to pick out which quality tools and which cheap tools to buy and the newbe will be WAY ahead of the curve.

Brian
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2013, 08:56 AM
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I agree. I just don't like when people equate what tools you buy to destroying the economy. In South America guys don't get new hoods, they de-skin it, repair it, and then put it back on the shell. that's pretty admirable. I've also seen guys from Hawaii work in dusty conditions wearing flip-flops. I nearly
dropped out of my seat in laughter.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2013, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
I agree. I just don't like when people equate what tools you buy to destroying the economy. In South America guys don't get new hoods, they de-skin it, repair it, and then put it back on the shell. that's pretty admirable. I've also seen guys from Hawaii work in dusty conditions wearing flip-flops. I nearly
dropped out of my seat in laughter.
people don't like hearing the truth, the awaking is coming, and it's not going to be pretty
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2013, 11:42 AM
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well of course, it doesn't all add up but I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2013, 01:31 PM
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well said Irelands child. buying usa manufactured is pretty hard any more.
and for the record i am anti-union and live in detroit, you all know what a poop storm detroit is
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2013, 04:51 PM
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Do any of you think when the Chinese buy something that says it's made in China that they think they're getting quality tools?

Just something I always wondered about......
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:45 PM
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A "made in the usa" marked product doesn't always mean quality anymore. This is a result of a refillable, rechargeable container exploding in my hand. I can't go into great detail, but all instructions were followed. Click image for larger version

Name:	1384566008801.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	33.6 KB
ID:	98754
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2013, 09:22 PM
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Yeow that does NOT look like fun. What was this item that did it?

Brian
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:35 PM
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Have things changed THAT much?

When did "Made in the USA" guarantee a universal standard of high quality?

Go back in time a bit - pre-Richard Nixon granting "Most Favored Nation" status to China.

Are you telling me that EVERY SINGLE tool made in the USA was exactly equal to every other one in terms of quality?

Just wondering if someone can affix a date to when the big change occurred when there was no more junk made in the US, when all the makers of the lower quality stuff voluntarily closed up shop and stopped ripping folks off ......
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2013, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave57210 View Post
Have things changed THAT much?

When did "Made in the USA" guarantee a universal standard of high quality?

Go back in time a bit - pre-Richard Nixon granting "Most Favored Nation" status to China.

Are you telling me that EVERY SINGLE tool made in the USA was exactly equal to every other one in terms of quality?

Just wondering if someone can affix a date to when the big change occurred when there was no more junk made in the US, when all the makers of the lower quality stuff voluntarily closed up shop and stopped ripping folks off ......
I think the Made in USA really means about everywhere else but the less then stellar quality often made in China (and in the '50s, Japanese tools). These free world tools include, gasp, Canada, UK, Germany and even Italy. Heck even you are of an age that working on British cars often meant having some Whitworth fastener tools.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2013, 05:09 PM
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When did "Made in the USA" guarantee a universal standard of high quality?
lol... look at the big three 80s and 90s cars. yah, quality job one? no wonder everyone buys foreign cars.


just got back from harbor fright, needed to drill a 1'' hole in a block wall to run a gas line.
5 carbide tipped masonry bits, 16'' long, 5/16 thru 1'' for $15 with my 25% off coupon.
the cheapest i could find a single 1'' bit was $59, i could rent one for $20
i don't care if each bit only does one hole, i'll still be ahead of the game...
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2013, 07:34 PM
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I don't know how you can call something "the big 3" without Toyota or Honda in the mix. They are just simply more reliable, better designed, and have the track records of producing better cars that last. Just look on the road. You see lots of old Hondas and Toyotas. You see an old Ford Taurus and it's puting down the street. Chrysler is one of the worst. Do you see any old Chryslers on the road that aren't minivans? They're all junked.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2013, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
I don't know how you can call something "the big 3" without Toyota or Honda in the mix. They are just simply more reliable, better designed, and have the track records of producing better cars that last. Just look on the road. You see lots of old Hondas and Toyotas. You see an old Ford Taurus and it's puting down the street. Chrysler is one of the worst. Do you see any old Chryslers on the road that aren't minivans? They're all junked.
LOL, You are telling your age Henry. "The big three" has nothing to do with who is currently the biggest or the best. We old guys have referred to the big three for 60 years.

That term started back in the 40's when 90% of all cars in the us were made by Ford, GM, or Chrysler. We had not heard of Nissan, Honda, or Toyota in those days.

John
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