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Old 01-10-2010, 09:06 PM
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Water coming from air tools

Yes I searched and read quite a few posts on moisture in the lines, man do I have it! I had a couple questions. Rambo posted the pic below of his setup and I liked the way it looked and the minimal space it takes up. I know copper is better at heat transfer, but I have no idea how to sweat pipes. I was gonna go with galvanized as I know how to turn a wrench.
Can I follow the same setup in the picture with galvanized and it work properly?
what size line should I use?
What is the length of hose in the drop that attaches to those petcocks?
Does the hose coming out of the air compressor to the piping go to the top of the pipe run first?
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:27 PM
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[QUOTE=vintagecar]Yes I searched and read quite a few posts on moisture in the lines, man do I have it! I had a couple questions. Rambo posted the pic below of his setup and I liked the way it looked and the minimal space it takes up. I know copper is better at heat transfer, but I have no idea how to sweat pipes. I was gonna go with galvanized as I know how to turn a wrench.
Can I follow the same setup in the picture with galvanized and it work properly?
what size line should I use?
What is the length of hose in the drop that attaches to those petcocks?
Does the hose coming out of the air compressor to the piping go to the top of the pipe run first?[/QUOT

My setup is somewhat like that in the picture..i did the following..Relocated the drain valve on the compressor tank so it is convenient and easy to drain the tank..i have a 100 ft of line between the compressor and my filter to cool the air so the air/water seperator works and yes the line is sloped so water will run to the line water drain..i then have another toilet paper filter after the air/water seperator..with this setup my water issues are much reduced..I still need to open the drain valves and drain the system on a regular basis in order to keep the moisture probs down to a manageble level..

Does that help??

Sam
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Can I follow the same setup in the picture with galvanized and it work properly? what size line should I use? What is the length of hose in the drop that attaches to those petcocks? Does the hose coming out of the air compressor to the piping go to the top of the pipe run first?
Yes, you can use galvanized pipe to provide cooling. Since galvanized does not radiate heat as well as copper it will take a larger cooling section to get the same cooling. Since there are so many variables in an installation like this, I would just duplicate the cooling setup in galvanized and see how it works.

I used 3/4 inch copper for the horizontal distribution lines and 1/2 in for my drops. My system is designed slightly different. I have the cooling section and then I go up along the ceiling of my garage to 3 different drops. The drops come off the top of the pipe so it is more difficult for moisture to enter the drop. I ran my horizontal distribution line with a slight decline in it so moisture drains away from the compressor. This way the moisture drains with the air flow. I have a drain at the end of my distribution system. I also placed air filters/moisture separators and regulators at the end of each drop so I can run my distribution system at 150 pounds and adjust each drop to different pressure for different tools if I need to.

The hose from the compressor can enter your cooling section at any point. Just make sure it either inclines toward the cooling section so moisture drains back in the tank or it drains to a section of cooling pipe where you can drain it. Do not put a loop in the compressor hose that will collect moisture.

The length of pipe at the bottom of each cooling loop can be almost any convenient size. It should be long enough to collect moisture without allowing it to get blown back into the air stream. I think I used 4 inches of 1/2 inch pipe.

As you build this just remember that water will want to flow down hill. Put a drain at the bottom of every "hill" in your distribution system and drain them regularly. It will make a huge difference.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:33 AM
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Home Made Air Dryer

I was having problems with water in the air for sand blasting and painting. Made this from a $20 5 gal air tank and a coil of 5/8" OD copper tubing. Air goes in the copper coil, into the tank near the bottom, and out of the tank at the top. Tapped the bottom to evacuate condensed water thru the valve. It goes in a big plastic bucket with about 20# of ice. Works.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:53 PM
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both ideas are good ones.

i ran 20 ft of 3/4 black pipe across the wall, 2 90's and back again, sloped down hill both ways, with a valve on the bottom, into a filter/separator.

jsarnold's wrap job probably was a beyotch to get around that handle. that took a six pack or 2. but i like the idea of icing it down, especially for blasting.

vintagecar, turn that manifold 90 degrees and you'll only need one drain valve. it would be similar to what we did and bolt it to the wall to act as a heat sink. 3/4 pipe will work better than 1/2 but both will work. never use galv pipe for air, it flakes off inside and can cause heck on air tools.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:56 PM
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don't be afraid to sweat copper tubing. it's easier than threading pipe and you probably have all the tools to do it in your shop.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
jsarnold's wrap job probably was a beyotch to get around that handle. that took a six pack or 2. but i like the idea of icing it down, especially for blasting.
Not that bad. The copper was already coiled in approx the right diameter. Just turned the coil and threaded it thru the handle. Didn't have to do that but handle was just right for holding the copper. Biggest problem I had was welding galvanized fittings. Some weren't readily available in black iron but I should have kept looking. Big mistake. I managed to weld a galvanized water tank once without too much trouble but the pipe fittings were bad news.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:58 AM
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Welding galvy pipe is a very bad idea without lots of ventilation. That acrid yellow smoke (zink) will give you the shakes and make you really sick. Fortunatly drinking a glass of milk will make you feel better almost immediatly.
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolvo
Welding galvy pipe is a very bad idea without lots of ventilation. That acrid yellow smoke (zink) will give you the shakes and make you really sick. Fortunatly drinking a glass of milk will make you feel better almost immediatly.
Wow, I thought that one had finally been laid to rest but I guess not.

You are certainly right about welding on galvanized making you sick BUT if you do get sick from it you are in danger of DYING, I am not exaggerating, and drinking milk will do absolutely nothing to save you! This old BS wives tale has been around as long as that goofy suggestion for potatoes for burned eyes and is just as useless. I may seem to be coming on a bit strong but this is one suggestion that could cause someone to die if they try it, poisoning from welding Galvanized is that bad and if you get sick from doing it get to a doctor and DON'T listen to these old urban legends!



An upset stomach is only one symptom and when it has gone that far you could be in serious trouble and need emergency care NOT a stinkin glass of milk! If chest pains and labored breathing develop the chances of dying become even greater and these symptoms can show up as much as three days after exposure, by that point medical care is going to be a must and will be much more difficult than if treated earlier. If you get an upset stomach after welding Galvanized metal then you already have metal fumes poisoning and treating the symptoms with a glass of milk may very well lead to a fatal case of chemical pneumonia, once the chest pains and breathing problems start the mortality rate increases by a lot. Metal fumes fever is serious business and listening to these old myths and legends can kill you!
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:32 PM
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Oldred,
It may well be an old wives tale but it worked for me about 28 years ago. I was using an oxy/act torch to cut a galvanized rail on a tugboat I was crewing on. I remember seeing and smelling that acrid yellow smoke and got away from it right away, this was outside, too! I don't think I breathed very much of it. That was on a Monday, I remember watching the football game that evening and starting to feel bad and shaking. Fortunately I remembered the old story and right away drank a glass of milk. I felt better soon.
I'm not a doctor, I don't even play one on TV, I just know what happened to me. Maybe I was just lucky and my exposure had been very low. Maybe it won't work if you have lots of exposure, I didn't have to do a Google search to look this up, I was speaking from personnel experience, fwiw.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolvo
Oldred,
It may well be an old wives tale but it worked for me about 28 years ago. I was using an oxy/act torch to cut a galvanized rail on a tugboat I was crewing on. I remember seeing and smelling that acrid yellow smoke and got away from it right away, this was outside, too! I don't think I breathed very much of it. That was on a Monday, I remember watching the football game that evening and starting to feel bad and shaking. Fortunately I remembered the old story and right away drank a glass of milk. I felt better soon.
I'm not a doctor, I don't even play one on TV, I just know what happened to me. Maybe I was just lucky and my exposure had been very low. Maybe it won't work if you have lots of exposure, I didn't have to do a Google search to look this up, I was speaking from personnel experience, fwiw.


Milk has absolutely NO medicinal value in treating metal fumes poisoning! We can argue all day long about welding methods or what kind of welding rods might be best for a project and that would be nothing more than a harmless difference of opinion but that kind of advice could possibly cause someone to die. In your case you obviously had only a very mild case of poisoning and the milk only treated a symptom from an upset stomach, something like an antacid probably would have done the same thing but that is in no way an antidote for this poison. What you did is exactly what I am trying to point out not to do, if someone is exposed to a potentially lethal amount of this very dangerous toxin they could very well die because they wasted time trying a home remedy. I am not trying to be a smata@@ about this but there are people here who, in all probability, will at some time weld on galvanized metal and if they become sick the last thing they need to do is remember this thread and think "well it can't hurt anything so I will give it a try". Well it most certainly CAN hurt something and hurt seriously because when you first start to feel the symptoms you have no idea how severe the poisoning is and you need a doctor not a glass of milk!




Fellas welding on galvanized metal is dangerous and it most certainly can, and possibly will, kill you if you give it a chance. Common sense should tell anyone that a glass of milk is not an antidote for metals poisoning, this probably got started from the legitimate recommendation of drinking milk to coat the stomach in some cases of some types of poisoning but this is to prevent damage from swallowed caustic substances and is of absolutely no value in a systemic poisoning caused by inhaled toxins. Metal fumes fever from galvanized metal can start out with mild stomach symptoms that progress to a tightness of the chest and difficult breathing which may not occur for a day or more after exposure. The sooner this poisoning is treated the better your chances if you have been exposed to a potentially lethal amount so NEVER waste time with some home remedy because if it goes too far it could be too late!

Last edited by oldred; 01-13-2010 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 01-15-2010, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagecar
Yes I searched and read quite a few posts on moisture in the lines, man do I have it! I had a couple questions. Rambo posted the pic below of his setup and I liked the way it looked and the minimal space it takes up. I know copper is better at heat transfer, but I have no idea how to sweat pipes. I was gonna go with galvanized as I know how to turn a wrench.
Can I follow the same setup in the picture with galvanized and it work properly?
what size line should I use?
What is the length of hose in the drop that attaches to those petcocks?
Does the hose coming out of the air compressor to the piping go to the top of the pipe run first?

Copper is best for cooling the air. Learning how to sweat copper is easy - the biggest single issue is getting the pipe clean.

I'd go with the same ID as the line coming out of the compressor.

The drop tubes where the petcocks are - are 3"; 6"- 12" would probably be better.

I ran the high pressure hose from the compressor to the bottom of the "stil setup" ~ I wanted a shorter length of the HP flex hose.

It's a fairly simple affair but works well, when I built it I just plugged the regulator end with a cap and attached an air-fitting and gauge on the other end to pressurize and test for leaks before mounting to the frame and then the wall.
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