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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2013, 08:37 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Yep, I treat the paint area as well as buffing like I am working in an operating room. I don't have all the answers so I try to eliminate EVERYTHING by doing the right things.

Brian

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Old 03-12-2013, 11:24 AM
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I love sharing these story's that eventually have a happy ending and the problem is solved. I've seen fish eye problems being anything from a disgruntled employee that was fired and sprayed two cans of Armor-all down the air intake of the air make up unit, too a silicone based product being used on the inside of the car and all went well until the bake cycle was turned on to cure the paint. The temperature of the booth got up to 140 degrees causing the air inside the car to expand and the silicone saturated air in the cabin of the car moved out the vents, onto the car and fish eyed the hood.

One of my favorite fish eye story's (not unlike the KFC story) was a shop that once a month the shop would have fish eye problems only one or two cars and then, no problem. We couldn't figure out how or why. All we could do was try to figure out what the common theme was for the fish eyes and it turned out that it was coming from one prepper on the last day of every month. So we waited for the last day of the month to come around and it just so happened that the prepper's girl friend always came in at noon to pick up his pay check and he would show her what he was working on and she would feel how smooth the body work and his prepping was. As it turned out, she told us that she had a extremely dry skin and all the body shop dust made her skin that much drier so before she came to pick up her boyfriends pay check she would lather herself in hand lotion and body cream and just by feeling how smooth the panels where, she contaminated the panels.

Here is just another example of how important it is to have a clean uncontaminated environment and the reason for direct deposit is self explanatory.

Ray
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:31 AM
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Getting 50-100++ calls a day on tech line, I'd rather take a beating then have to try and figure out a fisheye problem, like pointed out, soooo many things it can be.

Years ago when i would do a paint class for painters in the evening, I use to clear a fender at start of class and have one of the guys stand there and keep touching the clear until it was dry to touch. Then I would from two feet away, spray some armorol and the fend would turn to solid fisheyes.

Solvent pops just seem to be easier to figure out, as there are ONLY 50 things that can cause those. LOL
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:06 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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I had one when I was a rep that I never would have thought of. I had just got there and was in the booth and there was a panel covered in fish eyes and we are talking about what it could be and he said "no" to about every thing I brought up. Then we walked out of the booth and sitting out in the shop right near the booth filters were a number of parts that had been painted in acid etch primer. When was that shot I asked, DING, DING, DING I could see the light go off in his head, it was shot between coats of the paint in the booth! The booth was running sucking the overspray from the acid etch into the booth! Yes it had filters but obviously something got thru.

I have said it over and over, there are so many variables in painting, why not eliminate as many as you have power over, because many you don't have any power at all! And buying non auto related products is a huge no-no to me. I have been in the paint company business and I KNOW there are relabeling of products. There very well may be the exact product that I am going to spend good money on out there on the shelf in the hardware store, it may be true. I know this, lots of games are played in every industry like this. But I'll be damned if I am going to take the chance on it for a few bucks savings. Every single thing I use is automotive refinishing grade, period. It is damn cheap insurance in my opinion.

I was painting at a new job when I was just 19 and I forget the problem I had, this was lacquer, it was wrinkling, or something, I don't remember. But my new boss went into the booth with me and he is standing there looking at it and he said "Painting is an evil". LOLOLOL, I don't agree but I sure can see where he was coming from.

Brian

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Old 03-13-2013, 11:58 AM
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Brian: I have the same problem trying to convince people to use marine grade or automotive grade vinyl in their car interiors. They all say "but this was a close out and only $6 a yard". My next question is: "do they have more if you make a mistake?"

I never use anything that I don't know where it came from and if I can get more. This is even more important with leather hides. I never use close-outs of leather, either.

I sure am glad there are no fish eyes in upholstery work!
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:26 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Originally Posted by DanTwoLakes View Post
Brian: I have the same problem trying to convince people to use marine grade or automotive grade vinyl in their car interiors. They all say "but this was a close out and only $6 a yard". My next question is: "do they have more if you make a mistake?"

I never use anything that I don't know where it came from and if I can get more. This is even more important with leather hides. I never use close-outs of leather, either.

I sure am glad there are no fish eyes in upholstery work!
Not being in that business I never thought about it but yeah, getting a portion of the vinyl or just enough leaving no room for error would be like getting just enough paint. You run out and WHAM you are dealt one that is a bit different and your work looks like crap.

Yep, I am big on quality materials and tools, even as a hobby, I just feel you owe it to yourself to save you from work and headache on something that is suppose to be enjoyable.

Brian
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Old 03-13-2013, 03:05 PM
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AMEN!, brother Brian. BTW, I'm glad the Cardinals listened to my advice and elected a Pope from Argentina.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2013, 04:32 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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AMEN!, brother Brian. BTW, I'm glad the Cardinals listened to my advice and elected a Pope from Argentina.
You were behind that huh?

Brian
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:22 PM
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When I heard the news that there was White Smoke, I instantly suspected a blown head gasket.....
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:44 PM
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One thing I have noticed is that a panel needs to be cleaned with solvent based w&g, then cleaned with water based w&g. There are contaminants that each will remove faster easier better than the other, or so that is how it appears to this old fart.
A good washing with Dawn, then a wipe down with a solvent base. When ready for paint I wipe it down once more with water borne. Might just be me, but the vapors from the isopropyl alcohol give me a head ache if I don't wear a respirator when using the waterborne.

Mitmak, you can save a few more dollars if you buy paint thinner instead of Mineral Spirits, its the same stuff. Get it in 5 gallon cans at Parker paint and save a few more dollars per gallon.
Great degreaser for use in your parts washing tank.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
.

Yep, I am big on quality materials and tools, even as a hobby, I just feel you owe it to yourself to save you from work and headache on something that is suppose to be enjoyable.

Brian
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTwoLakes View Post
Brian: I have the same problem trying to convince people to use marine grade or automotive grade vinyl in their car interiors. They all say "but this was a close out and only $6 a yard". My next question is: "do they have more if you make a mistake?"

I never use anything that I don't know where it came from and if I can get more. This is even more important with leather hides. I never use close-outs of leather, either.

I sure am glad there are no fish eyes in upholstery work!
thats like anything..tools are big.. people buy the no name over the name brand then a year later are shocked they can't get parts for it..
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:47 AM
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Barry and Martin bring up good points. Barry will always bring up something you never knew before, which is great for the forum. I personally wouldn't use mineral spirits cause using it is the last thing you put on your car(besides tack rag) before putting on the most expensive thing, paint. So my issue would be residue and evaporation time. When you wipe off your grease and wax there's still a tad there to be evaporated so you're relying on it to be gone with no residue afterwards. That's where the problem would be for me. It's just not worth the few dollars you can save. I could be wrong though, maybe it works great as a grease and wax remover, but I wouldn't go testing it. I'd rather let you and others test and tell me about it later.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fool View Post
One thing I have noticed is that a panel needs to be cleaned with solvent based w&g, then cleaned with water based w&g. There are contaminants that each will remove faster easier better than the other, or so that is how it appears to this old fart.
A good washing with Dawn, then a wipe down with a solvent base. When ready for paint I wipe it down once more with water borne. Might just be me, but the vapors from the isopropyl alcohol give me a head ache if I don't wear a respirator when using the waterborne.

Mitmak, you can save a few more dollars if you buy paint thinner instead of Mineral Spirits, its the same stuff. Get it in 5 gallon cans at Parker paint and save a few more dollars per gallon.
Great degreaser for use in your parts washing tank.
sometimes I think that water based grease and wax remover is more like "dirt based" grease and wax remover. That stuff is as harsh as silk. Might as well get out the dawn cause that stuff sucks!
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:46 AM
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sometimes I think that water based grease and wax remover is more like "dirt based" grease and wax remover. That stuff is as harsh as silk. Might as well get out the dawn cause that stuff sucks!
Sooooo, what one are you talking about, that is crap??

There are a number on the market and funny thing about this they are made to accomplish certian things and they usually do that very well.
Some are made for bumpers, some are made for interior work, some for cleaning normal bare metal and prep work outside of car.

They all do good for what they are made for but one made to do interior, is not going to work on bare metal worth a crap.

Do I also take this as you use a solvent cleaner on TPO, TEO, PP and PE raw bumpers???? What is the comeback ratio?

Buy the solvents at ace hardware or use the wrong solvent for the job and yes, I can see why you think it is crap.

When you used glazing putty on the endura bumper and had to redo, was it the glazing putty, that was crap or not knowing what you are doing?
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