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Wax and grease remover = mineral spirits?

45K views 34 replies 15 participants last post by  Lizer 
#1 ·
I read on can of Sherwin Williams R1K213 can of wax and grease remover-ingredients: mineral spirits? So that's all wax and grease remover is-mineral spirits?
They both smell the same, except a gallon of mineral spirits is like $13 at Lowes vs $24 for wax and grease remover. What's the difference?
 
#2 ·
I don't know about this particular can of wax and grease remover but when I looked into this a number of years ago wax and grease remover was much slower than most anything you could get cheap.

Listen, wax and grease remover is according to your numbers $11 more than Mineral spirits at the "McHome" store. How long does a gallon of wax and grease remover last? Let's say you are doing completes, how long is going to last, three or four cars at least, probably more. So that breaks down to about $3 to $4 dollars a car savings.

How much are you spending on materials to paint a car? How about the labor to paint a car, how are you spending? How about that beer or smoke you are having after?

That $3-$4 isn't jack squat, for goodness sakes use the stuff the paint company makes for this very important step in the painting process.

Brian
 
#3 ·
Just cause it's sold at auto paint store doesn't make it any better than if it were sold at home improvement store. If I buy masking tape at body shop supply at $7/roll, shouldn't I use same tape if I bought it from Lowes at $5/roll?
 
#4 ·
Yep, if it's the same why not? But if it's crap low cost tape it isn't worth it to me.

My explanation of the money savings isn't enough of a reason to buy the "right" stuff?

It's like sand paper, sand paper accounts for about 3% of the shops supply costs yet effects 30% of the labor. What sense does it take to use cheap sand paper if it has to be changed more and slows down production effecting that 30%?

There are things you can save money on, that isn't one of them in my opinion.

Brian
 
#5 ·
You just don't know how right you are!!
There is NO crap at a building center as far as solvents, that you want to use on or in a good paint job! Period.
First of all solvents are rated for different used, so MEK or ACETONE at Lowe's, is not the same grade used in automotive paint.
Mineral Spirits, there must be 100 different ones and any wax and grease remover will be blended with 2-5, if it is a good one.

Here is the good thing for any of you that want to clean the metal with lacquer thinner or a Lowes, Home depot wax and grease remover.
I have so much experience with this, when you call and say your car bubbled, once you tell me the size of the bubbles and where they are showing up, I can tell you exactly what the metal was cleaned with, without you telling me.

Just did this last Friday, a body shop called and two weeks after they delivered a car it was brought back, the shop owner told me were the 6 bubbles were and what they looked like and I said the car was cleaned with lacquer thinner.
He said never in this shop and I said its the only thing that can cause this.
Two hours later he called back, hired a new body man, who had never done restorations before and said, "nothing cleans like lacquer thinner" OH was he right, as this will be an expensive redo as lacquer thinner will cause just one bubble per panel or two (rare) at the most.

This must be why bodyshops don't shop at these places to save money????
Just guessing!
 
#6 ·
The patterns you see are pretty amazing aren't they Barry? Over and over and over and over you see patterns that soon are so clear, it's like you are a warlock or something. :evil: You can see what the guy did in the booth like you were a stalker face up against the booth window the day before. :eek:

They are THAT clear, these patterns are THAT clear guys.

mitmaks, how about a hamburger?


You have a McBland burger.



Then you have a fine burger at one of the specialty places in town.



Both are hamburgers, they even often have the same stuff, bread buns, hamburger meat patty, cheese, lettuce, pickles, onions, etc. look at them, they both have the same ingredients! Yet they taste TOTALLY different, why? The quality of the ingredients is the biggest difference.

Then of course there is likely more right? The kind of cheese, a seasoning here and there, that can make a BIG difference right?

Use the quality products sold by the paint manufacturers who have something to loose if it isn't up to par, and something to gain when it does it's job well.

Brian :thumbup:
 
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#8 ·
Brian:
The big difference is that with the McBland burger - you know going in what you are gonna get. It is national, it is built to a proven formula. Going to a local "one-off" burger joint is an unknown- it may be great, it may be the most gawdawful thing ever concocted (lets face it - we've ALL experienced that!) The odds favor the multi-million seller being much more consistent. Seems like when you are talking about the humongous cost of painting a car vs the small cost of a burger, your argument seems to favor going to Lowes instead of the small-market brands.

And yes, Brian, I'm just yankin' yer chain! I agree with your views. You are knowledgeable about auto finishing, whereas I am totally clueless - my best work involves a brush - but I couldn't resist the chance to tease ya!
 
#10 ·
LOLOLOLOLOL, Dave, you are absolutely correct in your analogy! LOLOL,

You know the funny part about this, I wrote that from the point of view of a guy who loves food! I savor every bite of my meals, I dine, I don't just eat to consume nutrients, you know what I mean? I believe food is one of the greatest blessings and gifts in our life and I savor it with all my senses. And those specialty burger places, I have NEVER been disappointed.

So that is what I see with the two burgers. To someone who doesn't feel the way I do about food, the person who isn't a food nut finds that McDonalds is a perfectly reliable place to eat where you can get the exact same burger in California as you can in Delaware when you are on vacation. And looking at it from that point of view you are absolutely correct, my analogy says to use the Lowes cleaner! Thanks for pointing that out, that is just too friggin funny.

Ok, let's go back to the cost, do you really want to save $3 a car on wax and grease remover chancing the damage to $800 in materials you are using?
How's that Dave, is that clearer?

Thanks again Dave for pointing that out as you did, damn that put a smile on my face this Monday morning. :thumbup::p

Brian
 
#13 ·
Just make sure you wash your hands GOOD after touching one of those burgers! Talk about needing wax and grease remover! If one those burgers get anywhere near your car you need to be sure to clean it well before applying any primer paint or clear.

Brian:welcome:
 
#16 ·
Yep, I treat the paint area as well as buffing like I am working in an operating room. :D I don't have all the answers so I try to eliminate EVERYTHING by doing the right things.

Brian
 
#17 ·
I love sharing these story's that eventually have a happy ending and the problem is solved. I've seen fish eye problems being anything from a disgruntled employee that was fired and sprayed two cans of Armor-all down the air intake of the air make up unit, too a silicone based product being used on the inside of the car and all went well until the bake cycle was turned on to cure the paint. The temperature of the booth got up to 140 degrees causing the air inside the car to expand and the silicone saturated air in the cabin of the car moved out the vents, onto the car and fish eyed the hood.

One of my favorite fish eye story's (not unlike the KFC story) was a shop that once a month the shop would have fish eye problems only one or two cars and then, no problem. We couldn't figure out how or why. All we could do was try to figure out what the common theme was for the fish eyes and it turned out that it was coming from one prepper on the last day of every month. So we waited for the last day of the month to come around and it just so happened that the prepper's girl friend always came in at noon to pick up his pay check and he would show her what he was working on and she would feel how smooth the body work and his prepping was. As it turned out, she told us that she had a extremely dry skin and all the body shop dust made her skin that much drier so before she came to pick up her boyfriends pay check she would lather herself in hand lotion and body cream and just by feeling how smooth the panels where, she contaminated the panels.

Here is just another example of how important it is to have a clean uncontaminated environment and the reason for direct deposit is self explanatory.

Ray
 
#18 ·
Getting 50-100++ calls a day on tech line, I'd rather take a beating then have to try and figure out a fisheye problem, like pointed out, soooo many things it can be.

Years ago when i would do a paint class for painters in the evening, I use to clear a fender at start of class and have one of the guys stand there and keep touching the clear until it was dry to touch. Then I would from two feet away, spray some armorol and the fend would turn to solid fisheyes.

Solvent pops just seem to be easier to figure out, as there are ONLY 50 things that can cause those. LOL
 
#19 · (Edited)
I had one when I was a rep that I never would have thought of. I had just got there and was in the booth and there was a panel covered in fish eyes and we are talking about what it could be and he said "no" to about every thing I brought up. Then we walked out of the booth and sitting out in the shop right near the booth filters were a number of parts that had been painted in acid etch primer. When was that shot I asked, DING, DING, DING I could see the light go off in his head, it was shot between coats of the paint in the booth! The booth was running sucking the overspray from the acid etch into the booth! Yes it had filters but obviously something got thru.

I have said it over and over, there are so many variables in painting, why not eliminate as many as you have power over, because many you don't have any power at all! And buying non auto related products is a huge no-no to me. I have been in the paint company business and I KNOW there are relabeling of products. There very well may be the exact product that I am going to spend good money on out there on the shelf in the hardware store, it may be true. I know this, lots of games are played in every industry like this. But I'll be damned if I am going to take the chance on it for a few bucks savings. Every single thing I use is automotive refinishing grade, period. It is damn cheap insurance in my opinion.

I was painting at a new job when I was just 19 and I forget the problem I had, this was lacquer, it was wrinkling, or something, I don't remember. But my new boss went into the booth with me and he is standing there looking at it and he said "Painting is an evil". LOLOLOL, I don't agree but I sure can see where he was coming from.

Brian
 
#20 ·
Brian: I have the same problem trying to convince people to use marine grade or automotive grade vinyl in their car interiors. They all say "but this was a close out and only $6 a yard". My next question is: "do they have more if you make a mistake?"

I never use anything that I don't know where it came from and if I can get more. This is even more important with leather hides. I never use close-outs of leather, either.

I sure am glad there are no fish eyes in upholstery work!
 
#21 ·
Not being in that business I never thought about it but yeah, getting a portion of the vinyl or just enough leaving no room for error would be like getting just enough paint. You run out and WHAM you are dealt one that is a bit different and your work looks like crap.

Yep, I am big on quality materials and tools, even as a hobby, I just feel you owe it to yourself to save you from work and headache on something that is suppose to be enjoyable.:thumbup:

Brian
 
#25 ·
One thing I have noticed is that a panel needs to be cleaned with solvent based w&g, then cleaned with water based w&g. There are contaminants that each will remove faster easier better than the other, or so that is how it appears to this old fart.
A good washing with Dawn, then a wipe down with a solvent base. When ready for paint I wipe it down once more with water borne. Might just be me, but the vapors from the isopropyl alcohol give me a head ache if I don't wear a respirator when using the waterborne.

Mitmak, you can save a few more dollars if you buy paint thinner instead of Mineral Spirits, its the same stuff. Get it in 5 gallon cans at Parker paint and save a few more dollars per gallon.
Great degreaser for use in your parts washing tank.
 
#28 ·
Barry and Martin bring up good points. Barry will always bring up something you never knew before, which is great for the forum. I personally wouldn't use mineral spirits cause using it is the last thing you put on your car(besides tack rag) before putting on the most expensive thing, paint. So my issue would be residue and evaporation time. When you wipe off your grease and wax there's still a tad there to be evaporated so you're relying on it to be gone with no residue afterwards. That's where the problem would be for me. It's just not worth the few dollars you can save. I could be wrong though, maybe it works great as a grease and wax remover, but I wouldn't go testing it. I'd rather let you and others test and tell me about it later.:D
 
#35 ·
The hilarious thing about this thread is now at the bottom of the page where the recent thread icons are, this thread is represented by a big pic of a double cheeseburger.

And I'd like to go on the record and say that Brian has probably never been more wrong in the history of the world than he is now. McDonald's is ****ing AWESOME anyway you slice it.
 
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