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-   -   Wax and grease remover = mineral spirits? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/wax-grease-remover-mineral-spirits-230543.html)

mitmaks 03-10-2013 07:58 PM

Wax and grease remover = mineral spirits?
 
I read on can of Sherwin Williams R1K213 can of wax and grease remover-ingredients: mineral spirits? So that's all wax and grease remover is-mineral spirits?
They both smell the same, except a gallon of mineral spirits is like $13 at Lowes vs $24 for wax and grease remover. What's the difference?

MARTINSR 03-10-2013 09:08 PM

I don't know about this particular can of wax and grease remover but when I looked into this a number of years ago wax and grease remover was much slower than most anything you could get cheap.

Listen, wax and grease remover is according to your numbers $11 more than Mineral spirits at the "McHome" store. How long does a gallon of wax and grease remover last? Let's say you are doing completes, how long is going to last, three or four cars at least, probably more. So that breaks down to about $3 to $4 dollars a car savings.

How much are you spending on materials to paint a car? How about the labor to paint a car, how are you spending? How about that beer or smoke you are having after?

That $3-$4 isn't jack squat, for goodness sakes use the stuff the paint company makes for this very important step in the painting process.

Brian

mitmaks 03-10-2013 09:30 PM

Just cause it's sold at auto paint store doesn't make it any better than if it were sold at home improvement store. If I buy masking tape at body shop supply at $7/roll, shouldn't I use same tape if I bought it from Lowes at $5/roll?

MARTINSR 03-10-2013 09:34 PM

Yep, if it's the same why not? But if it's crap low cost tape it isn't worth it to me.

My explanation of the money savings isn't enough of a reason to buy the "right" stuff?

It's like sand paper, sand paper accounts for about 3% of the shops supply costs yet effects 30% of the labor. What sense does it take to use cheap sand paper if it has to be changed more and slows down production effecting that 30%?

There are things you can save money on, that isn't one of them in my opinion.

Brian

BarryK 03-11-2013 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARTINSR (Post 1655548)
Yep, if it's the same why not? But if it's crap low cost tape it isn't worth it to me.

My explanation of the money savings isn't enough of a reason to buy the "right" stuff?

It's like sand paper, sand paper accounts for about 3% of the shops supply costs yet effects 30% of the labor. What sense does it take to use cheap sand paper if it has to be changed more and slows down production effecting that 30%?

There are things you can save money on, that isn't one of them in my opinion.

Brian

You just don't know how right you are!!
There is NO crap at a building center as far as solvents, that you want to use on or in a good paint job! Period.
First of all solvents are rated for different used, so MEK or ACETONE at Lowe's, is not the same grade used in automotive paint.
Mineral Spirits, there must be 100 different ones and any wax and grease remover will be blended with 2-5, if it is a good one.

Here is the good thing for any of you that want to clean the metal with lacquer thinner or a Lowes, Home depot wax and grease remover.
I have so much experience with this, when you call and say your car bubbled, once you tell me the size of the bubbles and where they are showing up, I can tell you exactly what the metal was cleaned with, without you telling me.

Just did this last Friday, a body shop called and two weeks after they delivered a car it was brought back, the shop owner told me were the 6 bubbles were and what they looked like and I said the car was cleaned with lacquer thinner.
He said never in this shop and I said its the only thing that can cause this.
Two hours later he called back, hired a new body man, who had never done restorations before and said, "nothing cleans like lacquer thinner" OH was he right, as this will be an expensive redo as lacquer thinner will cause just one bubble per panel or two (rare) at the most.

This must be why bodyshops don't shop at these places to save money????
Just guessing!

MARTINSR 03-11-2013 09:51 AM

The patterns you see are pretty amazing aren't they Barry? Over and over and over and over you see patterns that soon are so clear, it's like you are a warlock or something. :evil: You can see what the guy did in the booth like you were a stalker face up against the booth window the day before. :eek:

They are THAT clear, these patterns are THAT clear guys.

mitmaks, how about a hamburger?


You have a McBland burger.

http://stitchesndishes.com/wp-conten...terpounder.jpg

Then you have a fine burger at one of the specialty places in town.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GhdhX19pm6...urger+Buns.JPG

Both are hamburgers, they even often have the same stuff, bread buns, hamburger meat patty, cheese, lettuce, pickles, onions, etc. look at them, they both have the same ingredients! Yet they taste TOTALLY different, why? The quality of the ingredients is the biggest difference.

Then of course there is likely more right? The kind of cheese, a seasoning here and there, that can make a BIG difference right?

Use the quality products sold by the paint manufacturers who have something to loose if it isn't up to par, and something to gain when it does it's job well.

Brian :thumbup:

white72gs455 03-11-2013 10:08 AM

Related question,,,
 
I don't want to high jack the thread...
But can I use the cheap laquer thinner for initial cleaning to remove junk? Then come back once metal is all bare and clean with the good stuff?

Dave57210 03-11-2013 10:13 AM

Brian:
The big difference is that with the McBland burger - you know going in what you are gonna get. It is national, it is built to a proven formula. Going to a local "one-off" burger joint is an unknown- it may be great, it may be the most gawdawful thing ever concocted (lets face it - we've ALL experienced that!) The odds favor the multi-million seller being much more consistent. Seems like when you are talking about the humongous cost of painting a car vs the small cost of a burger, your argument seems to favor going to Lowes instead of the small-market brands.

And yes, Brian, I'm just yankin' yer chain! I agree with your views. You are knowledgeable about auto finishing, whereas I am totally clueless - my best work involves a brush - but I couldn't resist the chance to tease ya!

BarryK 03-11-2013 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white72gs455 (Post 1655708)
I don't want to high jack the thread...
But can I use the cheap laquer thinner for initial cleaning to remove junk? Then come back once metal is all bare and clean with the good stuff?

Yes, as that will solve the problem!

MARTINSR 03-11-2013 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave57210 (Post 1655715)
Brian:
The big difference is that with the McBland burger - you know going in what you are gonna get. It is national, it is built to a proven formula. Going to a local "one-off" burger joint is an unknown- it may be great, it may be the most gawdawful thing ever concocted (lets face it - we've ALL experienced that!) The odds favor the multi-million seller being much more consistent. Seems like when you are talking about the humongous cost of painting a car vs the small cost of a burger, your argument seems to favor going to Lowes instead of the small-market brands.

And yes, Brian, I'm just yankin' yer chain! I agree with your views. You are knowledgeable about auto finishing, whereas I am totally clueless - my best work involves a brush - but I couldn't resist the chance to tease ya!

LOLOLOLOLOL, Dave, you are absolutely correct in your analogy! LOLOL,

You know the funny part about this, I wrote that from the point of view of a guy who loves food! I savor every bite of my meals, I dine, I don't just eat to consume nutrients, you know what I mean? I believe food is one of the greatest blessings and gifts in our life and I savor it with all my senses. And those specialty burger places, I have NEVER been disappointed.

So that is what I see with the two burgers. To someone who doesn't feel the way I do about food, the person who isn't a food nut finds that McDonalds is a perfectly reliable place to eat where you can get the exact same burger in California as you can in Delaware when you are on vacation. And looking at it from that point of view you are absolutely correct, my analogy says to use the Lowes cleaner! Thanks for pointing that out, that is just too friggin funny.

Ok, let's go back to the cost, do you really want to save $3 a car on wax and grease remover chancing the damage to $800 in materials you are using?
How's that Dave, is that clearer?

Thanks again Dave for pointing that out as you did, damn that put a smile on my face this Monday morning. :thumbup::P

Brian

jcclark 03-11-2013 10:56 AM

I'm hungry now:D

496CHEVY3100 03-11-2013 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave57210 (Post 1655715)
Brian:
The big difference is that with the McBland burger - you know going in what you are gonna get. It is national, it is built to a proven formula. Going to a local "one-off" burger joint is an unknown- it may be great, it may be the most gawdawful thing ever concocted (lets face it - we've ALL experienced that!) The odds favor the multi-million seller being much more consistent. Seems like when you are talking about the humongous cost of painting a car vs the small cost of a burger, your argument seems to favor going to Lowes instead of the small-market brands.

And yes, Brian, I'm just yankin' yer chain! I agree with your views. You are knowledgeable about auto finishing, whereas I am totally clueless - my best work involves a brush - but I couldn't resist the chance to tease ya!

Know what your getting Nahaha nahaha:D

MARTINSR 03-11-2013 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcclark (Post 1655728)
I'm hungry now:D

Just make sure you wash your hands GOOD after touching one of those burgers! Talk about needing wax and grease remover! If one those burgers get anywhere near your car you need to be sure to clean it well before applying any primer paint or clear.

Brian:welcome:

BarryK 03-12-2013 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARTINSR (Post 1655864)
Just make sure you wash your hands GOOD after touching one of those burgers! Talk about needing wax and grease remover! If one those burgers get anywhere near your car you need to be sure to clean it well before applying any primer paint or clear.

Brian:welcome:

I have a good friend that owns a mega shop, we first meant about 18 years ago as he was a body man at another shop and the owner called me one day and said his painter walked out and wanted to know if the next day I could teach his one body man to paint and we turned into good friends.

Well a couple of years ago he was getting some nasty fish-eyes, not all jobs but about 12-16 cars a week (a days output) but we never put it together that it was only happening one day a week until the end.
For almost three months we tried to figure out the problem, tried everything and no good results came.

Well he called me one day and the verdict was every Wed or Thurs he bought the shop KFC for lunch but he was always to busy to set out in the shop to eat with them. One day he did and he watch a helper get done eating and start working on a car, he realized he had not had any fish-eyes this week, so far. He did not say anything and sure as can be the next two paint jobs--fish-eyes.

Funny how we over look the smallest item, when we try and solve a problem.
Everyone now washes up after the KFC1

Arrowhead 03-12-2013 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryK (Post 1656026)
I have a good friend that owns a mega shop, we first meant about 18 years ago as he was a body man at another shop and the owner called me one day and said his painter walked out and wanted to know if the next day I could teach his one body man to paint and we turned into good friends.

Well a couple of years ago he was getting some nasty fish-eyes, not all jobs but about 12-16 cars a week (a days output) but we never put it together that it was only happening one day a week until the end.
For almost three months we tried to figure out the problem, tried everything and no good results came.

Well he called me one day and the verdict was every Wed or Thurs he bought the shop KFC for lunch but he was always to busy to set out in the shop to eat with them. One day he did and he watch a helper get done eating and start working on a car, he realized he had not had any fish-eyes this week, so far. He did not say anything and sure as can be the next two paint jobs--fish-eyes.

Funny how we over look the smallest item, when we try and solve a problem.
Everyone now washes up after the KFC1

I was having a horrible time with fisheyes about this time two years ago working a on a friends '55 Thunderbird. Barry, you were a tremendous help and even realyed that story to me so I dug down deep and eliminated every possible source of contamination in the garage and the problem went away (don't know what the ultimate cause was and don't care, it was gone).

During that time I was discussion the problems with him and I shared the KFC story and he was amazed that could have such an effect. A couple weeks later, while I was still working on his TBird, he came over an caught me and the family having KFC for dinner and he almost had a heart attack!! HaHa


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