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Old 10-11-2011, 08:56 PM
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Weiand 142 blower questions...

I have a crate 350 in my 71 c10 and was wondering about putting a weiand 142 blower on it here are my specs...Will it work or should I do something different?

Block: 1986-Up 4-bolt main (8600lb GVW), 1-piece crankshaft seal (no mechanical fuel pump provision)
Connecting rods: powdered metal
Pistons: dished hypereutectic
Compression ratio: 8.75:1
Oil pump: high-volume
Timing chain: Morse link-type
Camshaft: flat tappet hydraulic (.382''/.402'' lift, 165.9/174.8 at .050'' duration, and 111.9 lobe separation angle)
Cylinder heads: 76cc chamber, 1.94''/1.50'' valves, swirl port intake, center bolt valve cover, and 7-bolt exhaust flange. These are not performance heads. They are high-swirl intended for good low end torque and fuel economy. The intake runner is restrictive because it has a ramp cast into the bottom of the bowl.
Rated at 190 horsepower, 300 ft/lbs TQ when used with OE induction components

Engine includes:
4-quart oil pan (5 with filter)
Timing cover
8'' balancer
Valve covers

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Old 10-11-2011, 09:14 PM
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Even though it's a small blower, you're c.r. is high, you can get by with very low boost, and better with aluminum heads as far as detonation goes. Do a search here, you'll find plenty of examples of effects of boost on c.r.'s. Detonation will eat you alive in a hurry.

There are a lot of posts recently about blowers, and is seems static compression isn't thought out. Sure, off the shelf blowers can be put on a "stock" motor, but don't expect it to last forever. Everybody says, low boost, I'll take it easy, etc., but......
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68NovaSS
Even though it's a small blower, you're c.r. is high, you can get by with very low boost, and better with aluminum heads as far as detonation goes. Do a search here, you'll find plenty of examples of effects of boost on c.r.'s. Detonation will eat you alive in a hurry.

There are a lot of posts recently about blowers, and is seems static compression isn't thought out. Sure, off the shelf blowers can be put on a "stock" motor, but don't expect it to last forever. Everybody says, low boost, I'll take it easy, etc., but......
how is 8.75-1 high??? thats low most ppl who do blowers or turbos now keep the cr around 9.2-1 to 9.5-1
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:51 PM
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Here's some more info and a question I have about every bolt on I can get on this motor edlebrock carb/intake hooker headers, flowmasters, big aircleaner. What I want is to keep this mild and streetable but add that great idle and of course hp whats my options cam,heads,ect...and not break te bank?
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Project89
how is 8.75-1 high??? thats low most ppl who do blowers or turbos now keep the cr around 9.2-1 to 9.5-1
That's nonsense, if you think "most ppl" are setting their blower motors up with 9.1 to 9.5:1, you are grossly misinformed, and need to do some homework.

That's clearly a case of providing bad information. If it was even questionable I wouldn't challenge it, but I've been on the bad side once to many, detonation isn't your friend. I don't know your experience with boosted applications, but assume none.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 68NovaSS
That's nonsense, if you think "most ppl" are setting their blower motors up with 9.1 to 9.5:1, you are grossly misinformed, and need to do some homework.

That's clearly a case of providing bad information. If it was even questionable I wouldn't challenge it, but I've been on the bad side once to many, detonation isn't your friend. I don't know your experience with boosted applications, but assume none.
maybe u should look over on ttf.com and thirdgen, only the old school guys are going with 8.0-1 or lower motors anymore

my experience with boosted motors is quiet extensive actually.

with todays ability to tune and fuel injection there is no reason to run such low compression
countless guys with centrifugal supercharges are running 9.5-1 and up
most turbo guys are going with 9.0-1 - 10.0-1 on pump gas
my tt camaro with a 355 will run upto 16psi with no detonation on 91 pump gas and that has 9.2-1 cr
i have 2 identical v6 turbo motors ones at 8.5-1 cr and the other is 9.5-1 cr
quess which one runs a hell of a lot better

the motors run better out of boost and make much more power in boost with the higher compression. they also dont need as much boost to make big numbers with the higher cr
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:07 AM
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While the centrifugal blowers and turbos may be that high- w/boost retard, water/alky injection, intercoolers, etc, a Roots blower is going to be a different animal altogether. A Roots blown engine can use boost retard and water/alky injection but the intake charge is going to be hotter than the others at elevated boost. As long as the boost was kept very safe, this deal might last- but there is NO room for error. EFI will help but by the time all that was done, a better set of heads and piston combo that gave around 8 to 8.5:1 CR could be assembled and the engine could actually make some decent power- even carbed.

IIRC the TBI 5.7L engine like bigj7698 is dealing with has a nominal compression ratio of 9.3:1. I have a '92 like it, 64cc chambers and small round dishes in cast pistons- not conducive to good quench/turbulence generation which adds to the problem of detonation- even w/o ANY boost. Remember, the only way these stock TBI engines got away w/ 9.3:1 CR is by the use of knock sensors and EFI. The swirl port chambers are a little better than what the preceding iron heads used- but not by that much, basically the plug is closer to the center of the chamber and biased towards the exhaust valve, but the Vortec heads make the SP heads- chambers and all- obsolete.

Last edited by cobalt327; 10-12-2011 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:16 AM
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So lets assume the blower is out....Here's some more info and a question I have about every bolt on I can get on this motor edlebrock carb/intake hooker headers, flowmasters, big aircleaner. What I want is to keep this mild and streetable but add that great idle and of course hp whats my options cam,heads,ect...and not break the bank?
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigj7698
So lets assume the blower is out....Here's some more info and a question I have about every bolt on I can get on this motor edlebrock carb/intake hooker headers, flowmasters, big aircleaner. What I want is to keep this mild and streetable but add that great idle and of course hp whats my options cam,heads,ect...and not break the bank?
Carb or TBI, or ?
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:22 AM
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What would be best..Im a noob
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigj7698
What would be best..Im a noob
What's on it now? Is it running w/the computer still? Do you have any emissions testing in your area? What tranny are you using? Gear ratio, weight, use for the vehicle, i.e. w/e toy, daily driver, towing, race only?

I see this is rated at 8.75:1 compression. And the heads aren't the swirl ports (sorry for the mix up, I was thinking about another thread- my mistake). You will usually find the CR is lower than the published numbers, but exactly how much lower is the question, and you cannot answer it w/o taking measurements of the chamber and piston volume, head gasket thickness and deck height. I believe all these figures should be available somewhere on the interweb, but like I said- prolly lower, like 8.5:1 or so.

IF that's the case the blower idea might fly, but again- no room for error, as those cast pistons will definitely not hold up to detonation under boost. Ideally, you want to use forged pistons w/a blower for the best durability. This would also allow the CR and quench to be set to where you want it, not where it happens to fall w/the OEM parts.
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Old 10-12-2011, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
While the centrifugal blowers and turbos may be that high- w/boost retard, water/alky injection, intercoolers, etc, a Roots blower is going to be a different animal altogether. A Roots blown engine can use boost retard and water/alky injection but the intake charge is going to be hotter than the others at elevated boost. As long as the boost was kept very safe, this deal might last- but there is NO room for error. EFI will help but by the time all that was done, a better set of heads and piston combo that gave around 8 to 8.5:1 CR could be assembled and the engine could actually make some decent power- even carbed.

IIRC the TBI 5.7L engine like bigj7698 is dealing with has a nominal compression ratio of 9.3:1. I have a '92 like it, 64cc chambers and small round dishes in cast pistons- not conducive to good quench/turbulence generation which adds to the problem of detonation- even w/o ANY boost. Remember, the only way these stock TBI engines got away w/ 9.3:1 CR is by the use of knock sensors and EFI. The swirl port chambers are a little better than what the preceding iron heads used- but not by that much, basically the plug is closer to the center of the chamber and biased towards the exhaust valve, but the Vortec heads make the SP heads- chambers and all- obsolete.
the heat is were efficiency would come into play,obviously if u put to small of a blower on something u then have to spin the hell out of it which just causes heat.

i do have limited experiance with the 142 and if i recall its only meant for around 5-7 psi on a stock engine anyways which as long as the thing was tuned right isnt going to hurt that thing.

whats the actual casting number of the heads on ur motor
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:34 AM
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The 142/144 blowers need about a 2:1 drive ratio to make 5psi boost on a 350. This puts the blower RPM at 11000-12000 RPM. IIRC there are pulley combos that will give a drive ratio of 2.6 or so (14300- 15600 blower RPM). The NHRA doesn't allow blower ratios higher than 1.7 so the little blowers are illegal on those tracks. And personally- while that blower may be fun on the street- if I can't run at the track, I have little use for it because the track is (or was) where I do my testing and tuning.

But to reuse the heads that are on this engine AND to make any real power, using boost is the best way to go about it, IMO. Or if the heads, intake, cam, carb can be replaced w/aftermarket, it can make decent power NA, within the limits of the cast, round dish pistons. All it takes is $$$.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:28 AM
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I have ran mini blowers since 1996 and just recently pulled the B&M 144 off my Camaro. I ran 8.7:1 compression with 93 octane and NEVER hurt a part. 34 degrees locked timing. I have a stack of time slips an inch thick to back this up. My car is not light either at 3500lbs! The key here is to run enough cam to bleed off some compression. VERY IMPORTANT. The higher your static compression ratio, the more overlap you need. The idea is to bleed boost at low RPM so you never get into detonation. I ran 234/244 @ .050 and it lived. I ran it 14 years on the same short block. I even sprayed it with a 175 shot on top of the blower but I used 110 octane in the nitrous fuel cell.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Project89
my tt camaro with a 355 will run upto 16psi with no detonation on 91 pump gas and that has 9.2-1 cr

the motors run better out of boost and make much more power in boost with the higher compression. they also dont need as much boost to make big numbers with the higher cr
While I'll agree turbos are slightly different animals, (and you have three of them, right?), I will disagree totally on high compression for a roots type blower. Making a blanket statement, grouping all boost applications together, isn't reasonable. You could, however, run big compression and detune to save the motor, but you won't see big h.p. numbers like you would with lower compression/higher boost, not in a roots motor, period.

Old school guys, eh? OK...
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