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Weiand 8004 and a 402

6K views 11 replies 7 participants last post by  kimosabi 
#1 ·
Hey how are ya, new here and I have a Camaro 70 1/4

been wondering about this old intake I have. It's a Weiand 8004 dual plane. Originally I was planning on bolting it to a warmed over 350, then a 377. Then when finally I pulled the trigger on a short block it got to 402(401).

Specs on the engine:

Dart SHP 402(they call it a 402) 4.125/3.75
AFR 1050 210cc heads, milled 0.0078 to a ~10.6:1
QUADRAJET carb
Jones Hyd roller cam 232/232@0.050, .540I/.529E, 108LSA/106ICL
Mahle pistons
Scat forged crank w 6" H beam rods
Harland Rockers
bla bla bla

I have only dealt with dual planes on V8's, as I'm a marine(?) mechanic, obviously because leisure boat engines normally don't give a crap about rpm above 5000 and torque is king, so the big question is: How big of a restriction will this intake be on a street build 401? Will it dump 100 horse? People have recommended the Edelbrock Victor E but if that would kill any throttle response I'd rather go with a bigger dual plane.



Thanks
 
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#2 ·
You have horse power heads not torque heads,,,
If you used a Holley 300-25 intake it would respond slightly sooner than the VicJr. I use a VicJr on my sbc with a 950 double pumper.
You need a minimum of a holley 850 double pumper. You need an open plenum intake.If you dont want to rev past 5k then take off the AFR heads and put something smaller on the engine
 
#3 ·
The Vic E have injector bosses and you can get it ready machined for injectors but as cast they are a carb manifold. Or throttle body injection.

I was told the Vic E has a larger plenum than a Vic Jr. Which might be a good thing.

I have three Qjets, so that's what I'm sticking to I guess. I have never heard anywhere if a Holley can achieve the same mileage as a Qjet, mileage is a plus as the car will be driven, sometimes daily.
 
#4 ·
A Holley can be tuned for fuel economy, but it is difficult to compete with a Q-jet if the Holley is a square bore. Whereas the Q-jet with it's dinky primaries is designed for fuel economy. Personally, I'll take a properly tuned Q-jet over a Holley everyday for a street driven vehicle. The issue is that Q-jet's are a bit more demanding to tune and rebuild than a Holley (Holleys are simple IMO.)

Regarding the intake, run what you brung - try the Weiand and see how it works out. But if your motor is a bit doggy on the bottom, then I wouldn't blame the intake. As mentioned previously, those are good sized heads that are going to be a bit soggy in the sub 2500 rpm range, but I'll bet they'll really run up top!
 
#5 ·
Another vote for the Holley #300-25 Strip Dominator single plane manifold, or the Professional Products Hurricane single plane. Or the Holley Strip Dominator in the Keith Dorton version. Either of these is probably the best match for the engine....but not the best match for the Q-Jet carb as these manifolds only come with the "standard" performance carb square bore bolt pattern.

You'll have to run an adapter on any single plane made today, nobody makes one with a Q-Jet pattern(that should tell you something ;) ) and you DO NOT want to run a common 1" thick spreadbore-to-squarebore adapter as they totally screw up mixture distribution from being too abrupt a transition, you'll need to have the 2" tall performance oriented adapter that the only manufacturer I can think of at the moment is Moroso. I'm sure there are a couple others but none come to mind at the moment.

The Victor E is a big plenum version of the Vic Jr, meant for large small blocks on gas and smaller 327-360" engines on Alcohol (where volume is needed to offset how much space the alky takes up as it goes 2 to 1 versus gas), they tend to work well on street 400" engines with heads on the bigger side like you've got.

Your engine is crying out for a 800 to 950 cfm Holley....and a wide band O2 sensor kit to tune it with, you'll get within 1 mpg of the Q-Jet if you tune it well.....and out-power the Q-Jet by 50+hp.

Cam is small enough in the big 400 small block that I don't see it being soggy at any rpm, should boil the tires from a slow roll every time you stand on it. :D
 
#6 ·
Holley 300-25 or the Vic Jr. and a 850 will service your combo well. AND like I have said here many times before...extend the intake runners into the plenum. It will really wake up the low end and not hurt the top end.
Tweak that carb in crisp along with optimum timing and it will be quite the runner. I really enjoyed the 413sbc I ran for years till I went back to big blocks.
 
#7 ·
Thanks all for your advice. To answer a few unanswered (maybe) details:


Fuel supply is worked out. I have the RobbMC Power Surge, a surge tank working in tune with the stock fuel line and vapor return to keep the it topped off at all times except maybe when you floor it the level might drop after a while but that's maybe 30 seconds of full throttle... Basically it's a 1/2 gallon extra fuel tank with an electric pump inside to a pressure regulator before the carb. Not sure where to mount it but passenger fender, close to the engines fuel pump most likely. That way I don't have to rip out the stock fuel system, which is a plus for lazy buggers like me. :)


Converter is a Jake's 9.5" 2800rpm stall built for a 350, probably stalls higher on a 400. 3.42 gears.


Exhaust is either my current Hooker Comp 1.75/3" or 65104 Hedmans. Not sure if I want to fork out more money on new headers, but if the Hookers don't want angled plugs I will get the 65104's. Exhaust is 2.5" X pipe, straight through glass packs, I'm building it myself.


I understand Qjets quite well, I understand work needs to be done and I have one that is supposedly good for a 500hp engine. It's not a modified idle circuit and I haven't ran it but I wanna atleast test it to see how it sings. It's a double booster ring 800cfm air horn Qjet "mailorder" carb but I'm tearing it down to re-spec it. It's clean, I like working on clean carbs. :)


NOT against a Holley at all, it's just that I have three Qjets here, might get a 850DP to compare.


Ok, the intake. How about the Vic JR CNC compared to a Vic JR? Ports are quite big on the 210 heads, and the Vic E probably has the biggest runners and a taper. Does the Vic Jr's have tapered runners? I checked the 8004 to the heads today and the runners path to the valve would be like a trumpet lol.
 
#8 ·
Intake ports in AFR heads have a larger corner radius in them than the Fel-Pro gasket uses....AFR specifically tells you NOT to grind your intake manifold or your new AFR heads to match the gasket, just let the gasket be bigger than the port at each corner of the port. Sealing is just fine.

Match the intake to the AFR head ports and not the gasket....AFR specifically uses that larger radius as part of their advanced design.

Buying the CNC'd intake that matches the Fel-Pro gasket would not be the best idea if you have AFR heads. Buy it as cast, so you can match it to the specific port shape and not the gasket.
 
#11 ·
750-3310 DP/VS Holley on an RPM manifold is what I would run, best bang for the buck and will run within 10% on an open plane up top and pick up more than that down low. If you have hood clearance issues an older Stealth is your only choice if you can find one. To pick up the top end you only have to notch the divider and put in a spacer to make it a decent single plane if you have the gearing and light car to make that work. Your gear is pretty stiff for an open plane, 3.92:1 or higher would work better.

Hard to beat the RPM/750-3310 DP or VS combo for a street car, probably why they are so common. Pick the DP for a manual and the VS for the automatic.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Yeah mufflers are perforated core. Not louvered. Pretty short too, mounted just before the rear. Oval body from Apple. They get a lot of praise.

I have compared with both 1205 and 1206 gaskets. I never match to gasket and always leave the manifold runner smaller than the heads runner. The 1206 seems perfect for the 210 head.

Fuel system is good enough and there is no way needed to go bigger lines and pickup from tank when you use a surge tank that uses a return line for constant circulation hooked up to a good pressure regulator. People that says it won't work have never tried it. Just like people that say a Qjet can't support a performance engine. They run 9's and 10's with single Qjets on big blocks for Petes sake. Understanding the carb and doing the work is necessary. Which I am fully capable of.

Question was about a single plane manifold as THAT is something I haven't tried before. Everything else is well under control.


As it looks right now, the Vic E is in my Summit shopping cart! I might use some spray in the future. Never know. I will use my rotary burrs to make the transition from the adapter as smooth as possible and the adapter moves the carb back a little as well. Might take a bit of removing material but as said earlier in the tread, the adapter messes up the transition and flow too much. Needs work.

Anyhow, thanks for swaying me towards the single plane. It was a needed kick in the butt. I was recommended to go Vic E even only IF I was gonna spray it later on. If not, the Vic Jr was good enough. Who says no to a bottle? But first I'll see how it runs without it, will probably swap cam too when I install nitrous system.
 
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