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Old 06-12-2013, 07:04 PM
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weld or fill

As per your guys suggestion, I have my car almost to bare metal.
I have a few things to deal with I need help on.
Trying to decide having not welded before do I try to borrow a MIG and fill these holes and risk causing bigger holes/more work. Or can I get away with using metal to metal or all metal filler. I was reading a bit but figured pics of my situation would be better.

First pic is of previous owners patch, I ground down the weld a bit more, but don't know if going any further is necessary, mighgt risk making a hole, should i try to add more weld to fill/metal filler/or just rage gold.


second pic is of spot that was a bit rusty and i kept grinding away deeper and deeper til it made a hole, crap. it rusted from behind and seemed to be really thin metal.


third pic is back of pass sill. I am worried if I start wire wheeling same thing will happen and i will have a big hole to patch. welding patches myself might be over my head.


fourth is a pic of a few shallow spots, I also have some tiny holes to deal with.

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Old 06-12-2013, 07:44 PM
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If you want it to last for a few years, fill the holes with duraglass, leaving enough room to work body filler on top of the duraglass (finish coat) Spray the heck out of the underside with a good undercoating to seal out moisture. I've had this last for years! NOT the correct way to do it though but it works!
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:54 PM
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First of all, how bent and determined are you to fix it yourself? Your car needs pieces cut out, new pieces welded in...if your not sure or confident in using a mig, why not have someone come in and weld pieces in for you. Anything other than replacing these areas with metal, welded in, is an exercise in futility...there is no all metal that will replace real metal.

I remember you and car from several months ago, and at that time the discussion was, if I'm correct, whether or not to strip the car. After much discussion, I'm glad to see that you choose to take it to bare metal and now hope you understand why the suggestions to do so where made.

The purpose of welding new metal is to stop the rust that is already there and to apply the proper materials on the existing metal so that whatever rust you had does not reappear. Welding in new pieces is more about knowing how much of the old metal to take out, knowing how to make the proper patch panel...and then it's about knowing how to properly weld in the new metal.

This is where a person that has experience may come in handy and you could watch, take the welder from time to time and learn, not just to weld but make patch panels, how much metal to take out to remove all the rust and what materials to use so that the rust doesn't come back.

The tiny holes will get bigger unless metal is replaced. I remember you have a lot of plans for this TA and the stage that your at now is often the stage that either the project moves ahead or it becomes a project for someone else. I'd hate to see this become someone else's project, if you feel you can weld in panels, go for it, if it doesn't work out, don't give up, get advice, if that doesn't get you through this stage, hire somebody and use it as a learning experience.

Ray
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:30 AM
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I was hoping you would chime in widetrack, so it turns out I was able to borrow a miller 135 indefinately (beer) and the welder/mechanics at work are going to do a crash course on using it. After practice my first patch will be a small hole in the door skin. They are not used to autobody welding as much so I will be on here reading a ton and asking questions.

The first question being, once hole is cut out, I have read a few times that the backside of patch and interior of door be cleaned of rust and zinc primered. I was going to do the spot on the inside of the door/behind patch with por15 and the backside of the patch with zinc primer. I am sure there are a hundred products and opinions on this but am I going in the right direction with this zinc primer?
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:53 PM
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Okay, here we go...and your right, there will be a lot of opinions on what to do and what to use.

Glad to hear that you've got help and will be getting a tutorial. The price is right on welder as well...beer...can't beat it...LOL.

The back side, the inside, basically all sides of a rusted area needs to be cleaned...I prefer sand blasting but not everyone has a sand blaster...a wire wheel...anything that you can get in there to clean it up. On doors, if I need to weld in a patch close to where the door skin meets the frame, I will open up the skin at the frame and clean behind it and reseal it (that's often where rust is lurking).

A good idea when welding in patches is to use the rusted piece of metal that you cut out as a template for the new patch. I always like to make my patch about 1/8th of an inch smaller than the rusted piece I just cut out. The reason I like to make my patch smaller is that when you weld in the replacement patch, the metal has a tendency to expand (Just like when you frame a house, the carpenter always leaves a bit of room on top of the 2 X 4 when building the rooms) and with a little room for expansion, you can often minimize warping the patch panel.

For priming I use weld-thru primer, it comes in an aerosol can, it's available at any body shop supply store and it works. POR-15 does work...if the directions are followed to the letter...I've also seen the product fall off if one step is not adhered to completely. There may be numerous other opinions on this, probably as many opinions as there are on POR-15.

Hope this helps.

Ray
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:58 PM
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I got a lesson on the mig. Practiced a bit, then thought I would attempt this area that will be covered later with a spoiler. Cut the corner, cleaned it up, two coats of weld through primer, got a patch, spot welded it on, the welds for the curved side went well but welding upsidedown along the length was a bit sloppy. ground it down.
Wondering if I need To fill the small valley on either side of the welds, or will that just cause more and problems and body filler will suffice, should welds grind down smooth and invisible or are these crevices along either side normal?



next pic is my next patch I plan on doing (within tape marks). Tapped it with a pointy hammer and it made quite a few more tiny holes, I am guessing the metal is thin in this area. Thought I might post these pics for suggestions or criticism before I cut this larger chunk of metal out. I was planning on just welding up the holes but now think I may as well replace the whole length. I figure it will weld in easier leaving metal untouched at either end.

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Old 06-16-2013, 08:26 AM
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In an ideal world, smoothly ground welds are what we would all like to achieve...remember this...if you can keep your filler thin, there is nothing wrong with it. Your doing a good job on welding.

Your right to replace the thin metal...you may also be surprised on what you find on the inside of the metal your going to replace...

Ray
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