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Old 04-15-2006, 11:54 PM
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oldred is 100% right on the C25 gas. I have tried different mixes in the past and straight Co2 and I decided over the years I'll stay with C25 on my MIG, it just works best. I use only straight argon or helium on my TIG set up.

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Old 04-16-2006, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bittles55
WELL I LOOKED IT UP AND IT SAYS THAT ARGON MAKES A FREE OXIDATION WELD AND THAT CO2 IS AN IMPURITY WHICH WOULD MAKE IT WEAKER I GOT THE WEBSITE IT IS http://www.jmgpt.com/html/high_purity_weld_argon.html AND WHEN I ALWAYS HAD A TANK WE JUST LEASED THE TANK AND IT WAS LIKE 60 BUCKS TO REFILL IT
C25 is best for MIG for steel. Argon or Helium is used for TIG welding. The only time I can see using Argon on a MIG would be for welding aluminum. I don't MIG aluminum as I use TIG for that. Co2 or C25 does not work for TIG welding as it sure messes up your tungstens, I know, I tried when I first got setup with TIG and tried my C25 bottle to try out my TIG, Oh well, we all live and learn.

gcrmcc
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Old 04-16-2006, 08:17 AM
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Umm.. I wonder if my welder will mig aluminum? But then I would have to switch gas I guess but it would be cool to try. Thanks for all the info.
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Old 04-17-2006, 12:29 PM
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Mine will weld aluminum. I used a try mix at the welding shop. It will get a lot hotter and get better penetration. On the west coast with all the earth quakes it was prefered when welding. The welding inspectors seem to really like the mix. I Just us co2 I have not notice a big diffrence when mix gases.

Craig
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Old 04-17-2006, 12:42 PM
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Has anyone notice that depend on where you are there are a little different takes on welding and welding at sea level it different that welding at 10,000 feet.

Craig
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Old 04-17-2006, 01:55 PM
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Never tried welding at 10,000', never thought about altitude affecting the weld What seems to be different, this is interesting. Does this only affect MIG welding?

On the larger wire sizes (the duel-shield wires anyway) I have not noticed much difference in how the weld is affected with C/25 vs CO/2 but there is some differences in the "as welded" state on some wire types so one should use the recommended gas mix for the wire being used in order to get the best possible weld with this type of wire. On the smaller commonly used solid wires of .023-.035 the C/25 yields a noticeably smoother arc with less spatter than CO/2 plus on something as thin as body panels the C/25 is less likely to burn-through. MIG welding aluminum is done all the time but on these little machines set up for steel a change of gas is required plus the welding gun (cable) should be short with a plastic or Teflon liner and should be held as straight as possible when welding in order to keep the wire from "balling up"
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Old 04-17-2006, 02:56 PM
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I priced a 40CF bottle at Harbor Freight then called the local welding supply. The bottle was cheaper from them! As noted, you want Argon/CO2 mix for steel, straight Argon isn't good for MIG, but is for TIG. Different processes react differently to the gasses. I used to teach basic welding, but don't know enough to explain WHY the gasses work differently. You CAN use straight CO2 with MIG -- it will give much better results than straight Argon. I couldn't get the mix locally when I was stationed in Gulfport, MS, (got ut of there just last June!!) and most shops in the area used straight CO2 for MIG welding body work. I'm sure it all has to do with polarity and the way the free electrons in the various gasses react with the electricity. I could look itup, but is it really that important? Bottom line is someone smarter than me figured out the 75/25 CO2/Argon works really well, and now it's pretty common...
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Old 04-17-2006, 03:03 PM
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When I lived in Colorado, I had my own Installation deal going And I did all kinds of work but what I found weird was I have to weld hotter in the thiner air and the weld just seem like it was not penetrating as much All most like the polarity was switch. At sea level it would flow in to the metal much better I didn't have to work at it as hard. This was with mig and stick.
Have you ever welded when its twenty below thats no fun also.

Craig
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Old 04-17-2006, 03:05 PM
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There have been various mixes of Argon and CO/2 with some even containing up to 2% oxygen and maybe these are ok for special cases but for the average welder doing body work or whatever with solid wire the C/25 just can't be beat, is available almost every where and is the accepted standard. Straight CO/2 works ok but the C/25 works a lot better and is worth the cost difference IMO
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Old 04-17-2006, 03:13 PM
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Yep, Twenty below I have had my cover-alls freeze to the ground more than once. Thought it was funny 30 years ago. paying for it now

Were you using gas or diesel equipment up there? If so the engine RPM could have been off due to the thin air causing current fluctuations maybe, I am just guessing. This is interesting I think I will research it some and see what I can find. Don't take much to entertain me these days now that I have retired
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Old 04-17-2006, 06:14 PM
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I had both Gas and diesel I like the diesel better just seem to run better.

I never had anypart of me freeze to the ground. I made the mistake of doing repair work in a freezer warehouse Repairing the 3" channel racking legs the fork liffs would run in to them. All the free Ice cream you could eat. Funny thing was when you came out for break after freeze you hands and buns off you would set down take of your freezer suite and eat juces bar Ice cream bars go figure.Them go back in. I had to be real hard up to do freezer work after that.


Craig
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Old 04-17-2006, 06:46 PM
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You ever welded in outer space? I have... Just kidding!
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Old 04-17-2006, 10:42 PM
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Inter space, Just the space between my ears, and did stick an rod next to my jaw once and grounded out and arc between the filling in my teeth that was fun after a min I was able to open my mouth. And of course the joke of the day was dang young kid weld his mouth shut. lol

Craig
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2006, 04:37 PM
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Northern Tools Price

The local Northern tools has the following prices which should be good for comparison sake. I also provided some dimensions of the bottles:

All prices are for C25 (i.e. 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix):

20 cft bottle - $17.99 exchange, $108.77 (purchased full), 14lbs, 14" high, 5" diameter
40 cft bottle - $21.99 exchange, $159.30 (purchased full), 27 lbs, 17" high, 7" diameter
80 cft bottle - $26.99 exchange, $222.17 (purchased full), 53 lbs, 32" high, 6.6" diameter
125 cft bottle - $32.99 exchange, $255.24 (purchased full), 75lbs, 43" high, 6.6" diameter

As you can see, bigger is a MUCH better deal if you plan on welding enough. As a side note, Northern's program is through Thoroughbred Industrial Cylinder Exchange and for every 40 cft or larger cynlinder they now charge a one time fee of $19.00 for every NON-Thoroughbred cylinder exchanged into the program.

Later,
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Old 05-09-2006, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cab
The local Northern tools has the following prices which should be good for comparison sake. I also provided some dimensions of the bottles:

All prices are for C25 (i.e. 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix):

20 cft bottle - $17.99 exchange, $108.77 (purchased full), 14lbs, 14" high, 5" diameter
40 cft bottle - $21.99 exchange, $159.30 (purchased full), 27 lbs, 17" high, 7" diameter
80 cft bottle - $26.99 exchange, $222.17 (purchased full), 53 lbs, 32" high, 6.6" diameter
125 cft bottle - $32.99 exchange, $255.24 (purchased full), 75lbs, 43" high, 6.6" diameter

As you can see, bigger is a MUCH better deal if you plan on welding enough. As a side note, Northern's program is through Thoroughbred Industrial Cylinder Exchange and for every 40 cft or larger cynlinder they now charge a one time fee of $19.00 for every NON-Thoroughbred cylinder exchanged into the program.

Later,

Tractor supply is the same vendor, same prices.
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