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Old 06-28-2007, 11:03 AM
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Welding gas tank safety!

I am finally going to have to rework the gas tank on my rod evidently the pick up tube has gone bad (sucking air below half tank) and I cannot get gas caps for the 1925 chevy that don't look like crap. So I plan to drop and drain the tank cut out the fill neck bung and replace with a stainless screw on and add a new pick up tube and vent check. I would like suggestions on how to best do this safely. I have MIG, TIG, and PLasma and have heard all ideas from drain and fill with water to using a shop vac while welding also that a mix of water and baking soda will neutralize. What is the best and safest?

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Old 06-28-2007, 11:28 AM
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believe it or not solder it with lead and a large iron heated away from the tank .make flashing for the joint . it will look good if you finish the lead. otherwise you stated all the ways to do it..or use argon to create an inert atmosphere in a positve leak state(gives you a good gas shield ). wash the tank out .. still really dangerous to be welding or brazing with an open flame.
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Old 06-28-2007, 11:57 AM
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I always boil the tank out at a radiator shop. I pressure wash it first ... then use a steam jenny. Then the radiator shop.

Mig the new sleeve ... grind for finish and you are ready for paint. I always have to paint my tanks ... as they show on 1932 Fords ...



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Old 06-28-2007, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Deuce
I always boil the tank out at a radiator shop. I pressure wash it first ... then use a steam jenny. Then the radiator shop.

Mig the new sleeve ... grind for finish and you are ready for paint. I always have to paint my tanks ... as they show on 1932 Fords ...



Deuce:
Do you do anything special during the welding Water or argon? Not having a steam Jenny do you think the radiator shop boil would be enough?
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Old 06-28-2007, 01:21 PM
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When I ran my weld shop repairing gas/fuel tanks was a common job and we simply dipped them in our cleaning tank (same as the radiator shop) then as an added measure of safety we either purged them with CO2 or filled them with water depending on the situation, I have seen quite a few welded simply after the tank dip and we never had any problems at all. Whatever you decide DO NOT!!!! let anyone talk you into purging that tank with exhaust gas from a car! I know that may seem ridiculous to you and I hope it does to everyone but this myth is quite common and it is just that a myth that can get you killed! I know of three serious accidents including one fatality (on a diesel fuel tank) resulting from doing this stupid trick and I will warn against it at every opportunity.
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Old 06-28-2007, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
When I ran my weld shop repairing gas/fuel tanks was a common job and we simply dipped them in our cleaning tank (same as the radiator shop) then as an added measure of safety we either purged them with CO2 or filled them with water depending on the situation, I have seen quite a few welded simply after the tank dip and we never had any problems at all. Whatever you decide DO NOT!!!! let anyone talk you into purging that tank with exhaust gas from a car! I know that may seem ridiculous to you and I hope it does to everyone but this myth is quite common and it is just that a myth that can get you killed! I know of three serious accidents including one fatality (on a diesel fuel tank) resulting from doing this stupid trick and I will warn against it at every opportunity.
I would think the possibility of un burnt gas fumes would be quite good! depending on the running condition of the motor. I am still struggling with this I could build a new tank but don't need a new tank. But I do want to be smart and safe.
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Old 06-28-2007, 01:45 PM
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If that tank is in good shape have it dipped at a radiator shop and it should come out VERY clean and safe but as an added measure I still would either purge or fill with water to eliminate any possible danger.
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Old 06-28-2007, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by oldred
If that tank is in good shape have it dipped at a radiator shop and it should come out VERY clean and safe but as an added measure I still would either purge or fill with water to eliminate any possible danger.
I found a near by shop that will boil it for $45 I guess I will go that way since I quoted a new 10gal tank at $675 and a sheet of 16ga stainless at $385 but both of those would be cheap if I blow my head off but then that is why I am asking opinions.
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Old 06-28-2007, 04:38 PM
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$45 sounds a bit pricey- but then maybe not for that area, anyway there are going to be other advantages to doing this since it will come out very clean both outside and inside removing a lot of unwanted stuff besides gas fumes.
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
...Whatever you decide DO NOT!!!! let anyone talk you into purging that tank with exhaust gas from a car! I know that may seem ridiculous to you and I hope it does to everyone but this myth is quite common and it is just that a myth that can get you killed! I know of three serious accidents including one fatality (on a diesel fuel tank) resulting from doing this stupid trick and I will warn against it at every opportunity.
I've never had to weld one, but I priced having them boiled at a radiator shop before for prospective customer jobs that never happened. The price was usually around $35.

Funny thing is I know a guy who swears by the car exhaust thing. I actually walked up to his shop one time as he was ACETYLENE welding something in he doorway! When I got closer and saw that it was a gas tank I did a quick 180! He says he's used this method for years.

I wouldn't do it.
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Old 06-29-2007, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddshotrods
I've never had to weld one, but I priced having them boiled at a radiator shop before for prospective customer jobs that never happened. The price was usually around $35.

Funny thing is I know a guy who swears by the car exhaust thing. I actually walked up to his shop one time as he was ACETYLENE welding something in he doorway! When I got closer and saw that it was a gas tank I did a quick 180! He says he's used this method for years.

I wouldn't do it.
Like you lots of people swear by the exhaust method but most insist it should be a newer EFI motor. I think from the feedback I have gotten I should go with the radiator shop boil out method unless someone knows a better do it yourself method!
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:04 AM
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That exhaust method is just plain STUPID! We had a worker killed doing this in 1980 at a mine in KY while welding on a diesel fuel tank that probably would have not exploded if he had not purged it at all. After this accident the mine accident investigator (IMSHA) said he had investigated several of these types of accidents caused by exploding exhaust fumes including another fatality. He said that, and I have seen a couple of these when I ran my shop, they often got accident write-ups from OSHA and other prevention organizations concerning problem areas in other types of work. It seems the auto repair business, not surprisingly, has had many accidents of this type caused by this STUPID misguided myth and it has caused quite a few fatalities but the myth persists and the accidents continue to happen. The flaw to this thing is that some people think that exhaust gas is "dead air", as I have heard one describe it, and is thus an inert gas but again this is just plain STUPID! Exhaust gas is highly explosive when mixed with the proper amount of Oxygen and the only reason they get away with doing this most of the time is the Oxygen mix is USUALLY (but not always!) too low. Even if an EFI engine did produce "safe" exhaust, which it don't, it would be stupidity to bet one's life that engine was in perfect running condition! An engine DOES NOT burn 100% of the fuel if it did our gas mileage would be a LOT higher and all it takes is the right amount of air entering the tank, this can happen, and that unburned fuel can explode! As common as these accidents are, as I said I personally know of 3 that have occurred doing this, it simply amazes me that anyone would be STUPID enough to still do this and to swear by this method is just beyond belief. DON"T DO IT!

And did I mention that doing this is STUPID!!
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
That exhaust method is just plain STUPID! We had a worker killed doing this in 1980 at a mine in KY while welding on a diesel fuel tank that probably would have not exploded if he had not purged it at all. After this accident the mine accident investigator (IMSHA) said he had investigated several of these types of accidents caused by exploding exhaust fumes including another fatality. He said that, and I have seen a couple of these when I ran my shop, they often got accident write-ups from OSHA and other prevention organizations concerning problem areas in other types of work. It seems the auto repair business, not surprisingly, has had many accidents of this type caused by this STUPID misguided myth and it has caused quite a few fatalities but the myth persists and the accidents continue to happen. The flaw to this thing is that some people think that exhaust gas is "dead air", as I have heard one describe it, and is thus an inert gas but again this is just plain STUPID! Exhaust gas is highly explosive when mixed with the proper amount of Oxygen and the only reason they get away with doing this most of the time is the Oxygen mix is USUALLY (but not always!) too low. Even if an EFI engine did produce "safe" exhaust, which it don't, it would be stupidity to bet one's life that engine was in perfect running condition! An engine DOES NOT burn 100% of the fuel if it did our gas mileage would be a LOT higher and all it takes is the right amount of air entering the tank, this can happen, and that unburned fuel can explode! As common as these accidents are, as I said I personally know of 3 that have occurred doing this, it simply amazes me that anyone would be STUPID enough to still do this and to swear by this method is just beyond belief. DON"T DO IT!

And did I mention that doing this is STUPID!!
Let me get this right not that I was even remotely considering doing this but you think it is STUPID! I think we got the point thanks
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:29 AM
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If someone wants to fill a gas tank with inert gas they can use argon/co2, straight argon or helium from their welder. I prefer to wash the tank with a prduct called "marine clean", it is specifically for washing out gas tanks. After that stuff, you don't need water or anything else to purge the tank.

I always strap the tank down to my heavy table, then wave a match taped to a 10' stick over the sender or filler hole to make sure that if there are any fumes left, they will ignite when I want them to. (yes I hide behind a wall or something too. My forklift has been a shield many times.)

Here is another thread with some of the same misinformation about exhaust gas.
Unispotter on Harley tank?

Later, mikey
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike
If someone wants to fill a gas tank with inert gas they can use argon/co2, straight argon or helium from their welder. I prefer to wash the tank with a prduct called "marine clean", it is specifically for washing out gas tanks. After that stuff, you don't need water or anything else to purge the tank.

I always strap the tank down to my heavy table, then wave a match taped to a 10' stick over the sender or filler hole to make sure that if there are any fumes left, they will ignite when I want them to. (yes I hide behind a wall or something too. My forklift has been a shield many times.)

Here is another thread with some of the same misinformation about exhaust gas.
Unispotter on Harley tank?

Later, mikey
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Do you know where the "Marine Clean" can be purchased from?
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