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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2011, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 68NovaSS
If I ever wanted any dynamite shrink wrapped, could I bring it over to your shop, you must have a propane torch laying around.

OK, I just have to tell this one

We had a guy at work one night on the night shift insisting that dynamite can be safely burned without fear of detonation. When he got a less than agreeable response he left only to return a while later with a stick of DuPont high drive! (This was back in the late sixties and the explosives at the mine were not under lock and key, it was required by law but laxly enforced). It was winter and we had a fire going near the equipment we were working on (and also near an empty explosives box which started the whole thing anyway) so the guy yells "watch this" and then the idiot threw that thing into the fire! I was simply stunned and did not know whether to run or try to kick it out of the fire since I was close by, I decided to get the hell out of Dodge but one of the other guys ran over and kicked it out! It is hard to believe a story like this but I was there and the point of all this is just how stupid some people can be and the things they will do even when it is not only their safety involved. From what I understand I am thinking now that maybe dynamite will just burn, I don't know for sure and I am not about to burn any to find out, but again the point of telling about this incident is that some people will do ANYTHING so be careful when working around others that may be reckless and don't take just any recommendation to do something as safe just because someone else said it is OK.



BTW, the fellow got quite a laugh at us running, that is until the next day when he was fired and the mine manager threatened to have him arrested! Horse play can and has gotten a lot of people seriously hurt and although this guy never got physically injured he lost a good paying job where he had been employed for over 14 years.

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Old 02-11-2011, 02:04 PM
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welding on gas tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by trees
Sky diving is safe but one screw up is 99.9% fatal only because it was not some ones day to die. Russian roulette is of the same mold, but one out of 6 odds are not good enough for me. I have been injured enough in my life time and will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER weld on a gas tank or any other container that has had a volatile substance in it. I am so paranoid about these time bombs that I will only use a flash light to look inside and is never activated near the opening.

Trees
Many tears ago I hit something that put a hole in my tank on my 68 charger R/T, it was almost new the hole was small, in fact I stuck a golf tee in it to stop it. I took it to the dealer, They said not a problem, Didn't even take the tank out, said they would use water , then weld it, I said I will wait outside on the far end of the lot. I don't know how they did it, don't care, I just waited on the other end, outside. Didn't take long they came and got me. I asked them about doing inside like that, They said that if you knew how to do it, no problem. I know you can do it, would I, no, but if you take it to the right people they will get it done.

Bob

You do not need a parachute to skydive.

You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:25 PM
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The Chevy dealership I worked at a long time ago had a guy that specialized in radiator repair. Occasionally we would get a car in with a hole in the gas tank. One of our mechanics would pull the tank, empty it and bring it to the radiator man. he would dress up the area around the hole with some sand paper, clean it and apply acid core flux. he then would place a copper penny over the hole and solder it with large soldering iron.

FWIW at the time I was working there a general line mechanic and we were doing a whole slew of Vega engine warranty work. GM payed the mechanic 8.5 hours to install a fitted block. You had to really bust your buns to get it done in 8.5 hours. Additionally GM would pay to get the radiator flushed out and repaired if necessary. Of course every radiator out of every Vega had to be repaired . the radiator man would get 2 hours labor and this was after it had been removed from the vehicle and brought to him. It was quite aggravating to say the least .

Vince
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:42 PM
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I have done my share of welding up a hole on a few fuel tanks... I wouldn't just tell anybody to do it.. But if the tank is washed out a couple of times and done right.. It isn't a problem at all.. But it HAS TO BE DONE RIGHT...
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 302 Z28
he then would place a copper penny over the hole and solder it with large soldering iron.Vince


It might have to be a real Copper penny since almost every penny a person is likely to have today is actually Zinc with a thin Copper plating, not sure if it would have enough Copper to solder or not. Interesting question I think I might try soldering on a new penny and see what happens.


When I ran my welding shop we did a lot of tanks but we also did radiators and had the facilities for boiling them using Sodium Hydroxide solution. If a person can find a radiator shop, they are disappearing fast, then having a tank boiled out makes them safe to weld on.
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:17 PM
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as far as welding on gas tanks goes
ive been in the gas tanker industry as both a mechanic and driver my whole life
i know a thing or two about repairing gas tanks both small (10 gallon), and very large (10,000 gallon)
but it doesnt mean im going to suggest that you do it
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matts37chev
as far as welding on gas tanks goes
ive been in the gas tanker industry as both a mechanic and driver my whole life
i know a thing or two about repairing gas tanks both small (10 gallon), and very large (10,000 gallon)
but it doesnt mean im going to suggest that you do it
Just a note, that a nice thing about CO2 is that it is heavier than air. Nuff said.
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Old 02-12-2011, 12:40 PM
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I needed to braze up a fuel tank from a ATC Honda 3 wheeler... filled the tank with water after I used compressed air to blow out the tank. The tank had sit for a few days empty.

After I started to braze up the seam cracks... the torch found a bit of fuel and the water exited the filler hole of the tank very quickly for a few seconds. The tank swelled up a bit too.

I then hooked a hose up to my diesel powered VW Rabbit exhaust pipe into the tank. No more problems
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2011, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosley
I needed to braze up a fuel tank from a ATC Honda 3 wheeler... filled the tank with water after I used compressed air to blow out the tank. The tank had sit for a few days empty.

After I started to braze up the seam cracks... the torch found a bit of fuel and the water exited the filler hole of the tank very quickly for a few seconds. The tank swelled up a bit too.

I then hooked a hose up to my diesel powered VW Rabbit exhaust pipe into the tank. No more problems
Diesel exhaust is acceptable. gasoline not so much since it carries unburnt ( read, explosive ) fumes .
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by adantessr
Diesel exhaust is acceptable. gasoline not so much since it carries unburnt ( read, explosive ) fumes .

NO IT IS NOT! and doing it will get you killed just as quick as gasoline fumes. The fatality I mentioned earlier was caused by purging with diesel fumes. Fellows this dumb stunt can and will kill you! Exhaust fumes are NOT non-flammable gases and will ignite explosively when mixed with the right amount of air, when doing this you are betting your life the mix is not right. DON'T DO THIS even with diesel engines because it is just as dangerous as gasoline exhaust!


There have been so many people burned doing this I just find it hard to believe that anyone would still believe that old tale about using exhaust gas to safely purge a tank. No kind of exhaust is safe to use and in fact it can even make a bigger explosion than no purging at all, doing that is just plain dumb don't take a chance like that based on an old BS belief!

Last edited by oldred; 02-12-2011 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by oldred
NO IT IS NOT! and doing it will get you killed just as quick as gasoline fumes. The fatality I mentioned earlier was caused by purging with diesel fumes. Fellows this dumb stunt can and will kill you! Exhaust fumes are NOT non-flammable gases and will ignite explosively when mixed with the right amount of air, when doing this you are betting your life the mix is not right. DON'T DO THIS even with diesel engines because it is just as dangerous as gasoline exhaust!
Sorry Red. Just that we did a lot of tanks this way back in Wyoming. Here in WV we started sending most of our tanks out but some of the welders would weld the diesel tanks if they had been washed out real good with water and then filled from the top with CO2. As a foreman I never required any of my welders to weld a tank. They always had the option to say no, but most often one of the welders on the other shift would weld it anyway.
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Crosley
I then hooked a hose up to my diesel powered VW Rabbit exhaust pipe into the tank. No more problems


You had no more problems because you had already burned what gas was in the tank, what you did then was take a non-problem and created one by adding the exhaust although exhaust in a tank that small was probably not very dangerous.
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by adantessr
Sorry Red. Just that we did a lot of tanks this way back in Wyoming. Here in WV we started sending most of our tanks out but some of the welders would weld the diesel tanks if they had been washed out real good with water and then filled from the top with CO2. As a foreman I never required any of my welders to weld a tank. They always had the option to say no, but most often one of the welders on the other shift would weld it anyway.

Middlesboro KY 1977, I was there when a tank that was being purged with diesel exhaust exploded and killed one of my friends so don't tell me it won't do it-IT MOST CERTAINLY WILL! This accident is the reason I have been so adamant in trying to get the point across about doing this very stupid stunt, it can, it has and it will kill people! A couple of years later another tank exploded at a mine nearby after being purged with a diesel engine but fortunately that time no one was seriously injured. Upon completion of the accident investigation of the fatality by MSHA a copy of the investigation report that MSHA sent to the company was posted in the shop and it clearly stated that this accident was caused by exploding exhaust fumes, diesel in this case, and that it was one of a series of similar such accidents that had happened over a five year period. The fact that most times it works is why it is still sometimes done but when it don't work the results can be disastrous and that is a proven fact!


Another incident in Hazard KY, about 1995, involved a NEW tank that was being built had been filled with exhaust from a diesel engine in attempt to find leaks prior to it's first filling. This tank had never had diesel fuel or gasoline in it but when they tried to weld one of the leaks they found the fumes inside suddenly burned with enough force to swell the tank, again it was fortunate no one was hurt.

Last edited by oldred; 02-12-2011 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by adantessr
we started sending most of our tanks out but some of the welders would weld the diesel tanks if they had been washed out real good with water and then filled from the top with CO2.


Maybe we have a misunderstanding here, I am talking about purging a tank with diesel fumes not welding on a diesel fuel tank which I have seen done many times without purging with anything. (I am not recommending doing that nor saying it is safe, it is not safe). It is the exhaust fumes, diesel or gasoline, that is dangerous and purging a diesel tank with CO2 does make it safe if done properly.
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Old 02-12-2011, 03:17 PM
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welding gas tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
Maybe we have a misunderstanding here, I am talking about purging a tank with diesel fumes not welding on a diesel fuel tank which I have seen done many times without purging with anything. (I am not recommending doing that nor saying it is safe, it is not safe). It is the exhaust fumes, diesel or gasoline, that is dangerous and purging a diesel tank with CO2 does make it safe if done properly.
When I put my post on this a few posts back, I sure wasn't telling anybody to go ahead and do it. I can weld, but I would not do my own. There are places that know how to do it, let them. We can discuss this until the cows come home and won't get anywhere.
I had a buddy, that would weld railroad cars that carried things that went boom. He would not think twice about getting into one and welding, he was inside. It can be done but let the people that know how do it, it doesn't work for them all the time either.

Bob


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