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Welding MIG? Flux Core? ARC?

4K views 44 replies 13 participants last post by  dubie 
#1 ·
I know that mig is the way to go as far as ease of use and not warping etc, but it just makes me sick to my stomach to think i have to spend 450 at least to get a crappy setup, When welding on my patch panels can it be done with a small flux core wire in a wire feed welder? What about a small arc (stick as I know them) welder? I want to be assured the welds will hold I dont necessarily care if i have to do more body work fixing warps and things of that nature, i would rather spend ten bucks on a gallon of bondo than and a week fixing things than $450 on a welder!! Any thoughts?
 
#2 ·
i bought a wirefeed welder for abot 300.its gas or flux core.The fluxcore wire burns a little deeper and the welds arent as clean.The gas in a bottle will last a long time if you remember to shut it off.Im on the same bottle i bought about 5 months ago and its still 60 percent full.With the gas its much cleaner.One can be had for about 250 from harbour freight and the bottle is about 40 full.I dont like the stick.too messy.
 
#3 · (Edited)
well i wish my wire feed was convertable to mig but it isnt get this it is a MIG brand what a rip off. Oh well it was free. THe only way i have found to turn my harbor freight into a mig is a custom tip!! Not somthing i want to play with! I am exploring the automotive glue called fusor right now sounds like i may have a winner, it is weld strength guranteed, no rust guranteed, two hour dry time and now worries (I am really concerned if i do weld i will do a crappy job and stuff will pop out on me!) Thanks

I also have an oxy acetalyne set up. Dont know if i can do anything with that? It looks like the fusor will not work on my shaved drip rails, so will any of the mentioned methods work for this?
 
#4 ·
Forget the glues and forget oxy/acetylene unless you are an EXPERT body man. You get what you pay for, plain and simple.

If you want to do this particular project right and and to do body mods for many years to come, invest in a quality MIG system. Your $400 will definitely not be wasted but will buy you most of a quality system like a Lincoln model 120 that will last a lifetime of hard use.

If this is a one-time project, farm it out to a pro shop, you will be bucks and headaches ahead.
 
#5 ·
So you say farm it out... I have drip rails cut off, gas filler to be patched, rear cargo light hole, entire lower door patch, Door handles need to be shaved, sidemarker holes on bed, and a cowl that is in two pieces that need to be seamed together. How much would all that cost at a body shop? I would probally just trust that to the same shop doing my paint, but ball park what would i be paying?
 
#6 ·
Gas welding warp it like a wash board. Arc will blow hole right through it. Before I had a MIG set up I did it with a cheap 115 volt flux core welder. It can be done but you'll want to get a wire brush to fit in a 4" grinder and clean it very well. It won't leave as much flux as an arc welder but it still will be need to be removed completely.
 
#7 · (Edited)
for what that work would cost at a shop, you could get you a decent gas mig welder, do it yourself, and the next rod you do, well hell it's free! least thats how i justify it..... btw, i'm saving up for one of these. i started out with this but it ain't got the balls to do what i want to.....

here's one on ebay
more your speed
or this

get the baddest welder you can. you WILL NOT regret it.


edited for ****** linkz.
 
#8 ·
That is what I Figured. I do plan to buy a welder but this is my first welding job, and I have 14grand in my truck already. I am worried that my welding might popout after two years. I could take it to a shop and get it back in a week perfect. I dont have to watch my lines every day and worry. What i was thinking If i could get the loacal tig shop to do it for 250-400 I would do that and have it done in a fraction of the time and perfectly. I just dont want to risk that i will screw it up. I am going to keep buying and building so i think i will practice on my next car which will not be nearly as nice or even close to as important to me as this truck is! THoughts, Comments?
 
#9 ·
Hey 70...you posted about starting your own custom shop... in order to get good and do well on rods and customs you HAVE to know the 'business' inside and out- meaning... ya GOTTA weld!! Get the best welder you can possibly swing- beg, borrow or sell something and practice, practice, practice. The investment will more than pay for itself in a short time and the experience will be invaluable. If you are concerned that you will mess something up the fear will stick with you and you will never succeed- GO FOR IT! Take the chance- I cut the roof off my car when NO ONE could tell me how to chop it- I just planned and figured it out. Spend your money on tools and not the 'bling-bling' like Play Station and DVD and big rims, etc. ( my opinion only- not dissing it just trying to help!) Get that experience and actually build it, others see it and want the same and you make the $$$ you need for bigger and better! Never be afraid of failure- success comes from learning by your mistakes and doing better the next time. Like has been said- 'Do it yourself and Save!" - the more money you give somebody else the less you have... good luck and get out in that garage and weld, man!! YOU CAN DO IT!! ( again- just trying to give you confidence and lead you down a winning road!):thumbup:
 
#10 ·
I'm normally a fan of learning to do it yourself but it seem that your under a time limit and you got so much invested in this that the job should be perfect. However when school is out of the way I would recommend that you try a complete do it yourself job. For your first attempt I would stick to rust repair or very minor crash damage. When your totaling up how much you've spent on a job there really is no way to put a dollar value on it when someone asks you "Who did the paint and body work?" and you answer I did.
 
#11 ·
6speedwagon said:
i bought a wirefeed welder for abot 300.its gas or flux core.The fluxcore wire burns a little deeper and the welds arent as clean.The gas in a bottle will last a long time if you remember to shut it off.Im on the same bottle i bought about 5 months ago and its still 60 percent full.With the gas its much cleaner.One can be had for about 250 from harbour freight and the bottle is about 40 full.I dont like the stick.too messy.
Man....you sure got me confused! When you say you wish you could turn your wire feed into a MIG. A wire feed machine IS a mig or more correctly a short-arc. A Mig is a mig whether you use a gas shield or a flux core wire!

I'm sorry but if you keep complaining about not wanting the tools to do the job right, I'm going to have a hard time sympathizing with you. I guess I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
 
#12 ·
yeah The welder I have is a cheapo welder and it does not have a place for gas output It is a harbor freight cheapie it is only like 110 bucks or somthing. I want to start but i just dont feel this is the place to do it. I am going to be welding all summer...My summer is filled with building fences. My GrandFather is going to spend a week teaching me to weld properly and then turn me loose. So i will learn the trade I am sure. A lincoln 110 is my next tool purchase. I have a lot of the rest of the body tools. Welder and a High VOlume air compressor will be about all I am lacking for basic necessities. I Have not decided either way which I am going to do (Farm out, Buy Welder) I am only vocally exploring my options. I have exhausted every means I possibly can to borrow a welder. Everyone is running arc systems around here (farm country). I will definitly keep on updating my situation here. I feel like I am not living up to a true "Hotrodders" standards.
 
#13 ·
I can lend my 2 cents..

I bought a Campbell-Hausfeld Mig welder off of ebay for 235 bucks with shipping. It took me about a month to get the basics down from sheetmetal to 3/16" thk. plate. I've replaced the front driver and passenger floor pans, the cowls vents, shaved the driprails, and am currently working on the rear quarters. I promise you, you won't regret buying one. You may regret farming it out if they do a crappy job that you have to redo later. I've been welding for about 3 months now and check out the fruits of my labor. I built this in about a months time and this project alone has paid for the welder and then some. (Hint: It's the rotisserie)

I little cash extra up front is worth it in the long run,
Pencilneck
 

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#14 ·
That is awesome. I get that i Need to weld I need to know what is going on. I am just learning mechanics as i go. My dad is the one who knows what to do there. I ABSOLUTLEY have to have this truck Finished by the end of JUNE. My dad is leaving for a month and wont be back until 2 days before i move out. I wish i REALLY REALLY wish that i had the time to do this myself. I just dont think it can happen! I have two months and I am starting two jobs Next Week. Every Spare second will be used just finishing what I already know how to do. I just dont think i can learn to weld well enough and finish what i need welded on my truck as well as what all else i have to do.
 
#15 · (Edited)
When I could only afford the cheaper 115 volt flux core welder I noticed that even though it had no gas valve it did have a set of plugs that a gas soleniod could be wired into and that the it had a place on the back end of the torch hose to plumb the gas into. Norther tool had a cheap generic conversion kit. The gas valve hooks directly to the cylinder and the wires follow the gas hose into the welder. I was still left with a live wire welder instead of a dead wire welder. I probably could have rigged up a contactor to work off of the same set of plugs but I've stepped up to a 230 volt machine.

When I could only afford the cheaper 115 volt flux core welder I noticed that even though it had no gas valve it did have a set of plugs that a gas soleniod could be wired into and that the it had a place on the back end of the torch hose to plumb the gas into. Norther tool had a cheap generic conversion kit. The gas valve hooks directly to the cylinder and the wires follow the gas hose into the welder. I was still left with a live wire welder instead of a dead wire welder. I probably could have rigged up a contactor to work off of the same set of plugs but I've stepped up to a 230 volt machine.
 
#16 ·
Ok guys Can you all look at this and tell me do these welds look good. This is what i did with solid steel wire without shielding gas (before i knew i needed it) I asked how to tell if a weld was good or not, and no one really had an answer, but i was told if the held up to a severe beating with a hammer chances are they are solid...Then i revealed how ignorant i am and said "shielding gas what is that" So do you guys think that with shielding gas and a better welder and judging from the pictures My welds would hold?

The picture shows a closeup of the drip rail shaving project. This is on the roof above top of my drivers side door. The little missing spot is a weld that didnt hold on through the THOROUGH beating. and the burned area is from ductape i used to hold it down with while i welded. (I dont have welding gloves or fancy clamps...) THe burnt crap on the bottom is just old sealent junk that will come off later.

My thoughts are, wait and see what everyone says from the pic, and hopefully if i get all good comments then i will buy a welder and 20cubic foot argon tank off ebay tonight and get it filled next week and then start working on it! Otherwise it is off to the shop I go. Thanks Speedy Replies are greatly appreciated. If I can get this order in today the stuff will ship tomorrow!
 

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#17 ·
70chevy......

man, you are more than living up to hotrodder standards. do not be fooled.;)

i only tried to impress upon you my experience with buying a cheapo welder, and now wanting something more....... the less money i spend on welders, the more money i can spend on machine work or sheet metal or whatever........:mwink:

i think you can do it with the welder you have. i linked you to the one i have, it didn't throw a much prettier bead, even with gas, and it's been a well known fact that the best welders are the worlds greatest grinders.
get you a couple of flapper sanding disks, and just be careful not to grind through your new seams. be prepared to go back and weld some more, and grind some more, and weld and grind somemore, but by God, YOU can do it. :thumbup:

your weld looked good, youwant to avoid porosity, or pitting in the weld, your gonna get tht anyway to an extent due to the flux core, but if your metal is super clean , no paint or other crap on it, you'll do fine.
get some ear plugs if you don't allready have 'em.;) and maybe an iron booger shield.......:p
 
#18 ·
that is the problem that is solid steel with no shielding gas. My flux cored welds looked like somthing you would expect to find on the floor in a cow barn pure .....Anyways I think I have talked myself into buying a new welder. I found one on ebay i am sure it isnt the best but it is cheap and has the mig conversion with it. I also found a bottle for 55 plus shipping So I think I am about to take the plunge!
 
#21 ·
walt said:
Man....you sure got me confused! When you say you wish you could turn your wire feed into a MIG. A wire feed machine IS a mig or more correctly a short-arc. A Mig is a mig whether you use a gas shield or a flux core wire!

I'm sorry but if you keep complaining about not wanting the tools to do the job right, I'm going to have a hard time sympathizing with you. I guess I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

NO! MIG is Metal Inert Gas. Inert gas refers to the shielding gas used to protect the weld from cantaminates in the air. Wire feed welders using flux core wire produce a shielding cloud as the flux burns. They are different.

Chris
 
#22 · (Edited)
Those welds are about as good as could be expected with no gas. I bet that as you start to grind them down you'll find that they're awful porous and brittle. It will look so much better and be easier when you get the gas. Which gas are you going to get? Your choices are CO2, argon or argon/ CO2 mix.
Paying for argon is overkill for welding steel. CO2 is usually the cheapest and some prefer it for sheet metal. Myself, I use C25 which is 25% CO2/75% argon. CO2 will pop and spatter more and not penetrate as deep as mixed gas. I use C25 because I weld everything from sheet metal to 1 inch thick stuff and in a pinch C25 will weld stainless.
By the way did you switch polarities when you tried flux core?
P.S. If your regulator and tank come with differant fittings don't panic. Argon usually has a different fitting than CO2 and most of the cheaper welder I 've seen come with the fitting for CO2. Your welding gas supplier should have the adaptor on hand.
 
#23 ·
Bottle is too small

If I were you, I'd get a bigger bottle. You'll be refilling that often. I'd buy one from your local welding supplier. It'll probably be cheaper, and when you go to get it refilled, they won't give you as much hassle if you bought the tank from their shop. I know in my area, it's standard procedure for the welding supply companies to ask you for a reciept for your tank before they refill it. I live in Louisiana and alot of Industrial related welding goes on around here. For a while people were stealing the tanks from companies and then getting them refilled and bringing them home. To stop this the welding suppliers started to ask for proof of purchase for the tank. If you purchase it from them, they'll have it on record and it'll be quick and easy. This may not be true everywhere.

Pencilneck
 
#24 ·
Re: Bottle is too small

Pencilneck314 said:
If I were you, I'd get a bigger bottle. You'll be refilling that often. I'd buy one from your local welding supplier. It'll probably be cheaper, and when you go to get it refilled, they won't give you as much hassle if you bought the tank from their shop. I know in my area, it's standard procedure for the welding supply companies to ask you for a reciept for your tank before they refill it. I live in Louisiana and alot of Industrial related welding goes on around here. For a while people were stealing the tanks from companies and then getting them refilled and bringing them home. To stop this the welding suppliers started to ask for proof of purchase for the tank. If you purchase it from them, they'll have it on record and it'll be quick and easy. This may not be true everywhere.

Pencilneck
Good point. Bottles are usually just exchanged rather than getting your bottle refilled. In my neck of the woods the only 20 c.f. they carry is oxygen. They don't handle anything smaller than 40 C.F. for CO2, C25 or argon.
 
#25 ·
I found the best way to go. Randy Fergusen the metal guy that is on the boards ocassionaly told me that C/H welder was not the best choice so i was looking at another 200 to get a good one. So I called all my local welding shops and no-one wants to touch auto-bodies. So I went to this guys shop per my dads request. He is an old guy who does paint and custom vehicles as well as collision repair. I showed him my pictures, and told him my situation. He told me his eyesight is bad and cant do the mig welding anymore. But he told me to let him know when i wanted to and he would open his shop up for me and charge me 150 to do all my welding and he is going to braze my door skin. He is also going to do a fiberglass bondo type stuff on my bed floor. I cant rember the name but it was exactly that purple bondo with a high fiberglass content. He was an awesome person to deal with and am glad i went searching...Thanks for everyones help!!
 
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