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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2004, 01:57 PM
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Ok guys Can you all look at this and tell me do these welds look good. This is what i did with solid steel wire without shielding gas (before i knew i needed it) I asked how to tell if a weld was good or not, and no one really had an answer, but i was told if the held up to a severe beating with a hammer chances are they are solid...Then i revealed how ignorant i am and said "shielding gas what is that" So do you guys think that with shielding gas and a better welder and judging from the pictures My welds would hold?

The picture shows a closeup of the drip rail shaving project. This is on the roof above top of my drivers side door. The little missing spot is a weld that didnt hold on through the THOROUGH beating. and the burned area is from ductape i used to hold it down with while i welded. (I dont have welding gloves or fancy clamps...) THe burnt crap on the bottom is just old sealent junk that will come off later.

My thoughts are, wait and see what everyone says from the pic, and hopefully if i get all good comments then i will buy a welder and 20cubic foot argon tank off ebay tonight and get it filled next week and then start working on it! Otherwise it is off to the shop I go. Thanks Speedy Replies are greatly appreciated. If I can get this order in today the stuff will ship tomorrow!
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2004, 02:46 PM
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Thumbs up 70chevy......

man, you are more than living up to hotrodder standards. do not be fooled.

i only tried to impress upon you my experience with buying a cheapo welder, and now wanting something more....... the less money i spend on welders, the more money i can spend on machine work or sheet metal or whatever........

i think you can do it with the welder you have. i linked you to the one i have, it didn't throw a much prettier bead, even with gas, and it's been a well known fact that the best welders are the worlds greatest grinders.
get you a couple of flapper sanding disks, and just be careful not to grind through your new seams. be prepared to go back and weld some more, and grind some more, and weld and grind somemore, but by God, YOU can do it.

your weld looked good, youwant to avoid porosity, or pitting in the weld, your gonna get tht anyway to an extent due to the flux core, but if your metal is super clean , no paint or other crap on it, you'll do fine.
get some ear plugs if you don't allready have 'em. and maybe an iron booger shield.......
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Old 04-27-2004, 02:54 PM
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that is the problem that is solid steel with no shielding gas. My flux cored welds looked like somthing you would expect to find on the floor in a cow barn pure .....Anyways I think I have talked myself into buying a new welder. I found one on ebay i am sure it isnt the best but it is cheap and has the mig conversion with it. I also found a bottle for 55 plus shipping So I think I am about to take the plunge!
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Old 04-27-2004, 02:58 PM
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which one?
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Old 04-27-2004, 03:05 PM
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Welder
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll...tem=3811949328


BOttle
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll...tem=2562271249
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2004, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by walt
Man....you sure got me confused! When you say you wish you could turn your wire feed into a MIG. A wire feed machine IS a mig or more correctly a short-arc. A Mig is a mig whether you use a gas shield or a flux core wire!

I'm sorry but if you keep complaining about not wanting the tools to do the job right, I'm going to have a hard time sympathizing with you. I guess I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

NO! MIG is Metal Inert Gas. Inert gas refers to the shielding gas used to protect the weld from cantaminates in the air. Wire feed welders using flux core wire produce a shielding cloud as the flux burns. They are different.

Chris
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Old 04-27-2004, 08:25 PM
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Those welds are about as good as could be expected with no gas. I bet that as you start to grind them down you'll find that they're awful porous and brittle. It will look so much better and be easier when you get the gas. Which gas are you going to get? Your choices are CO2, argon or argon/ CO2 mix.
Paying for argon is overkill for welding steel. CO2 is usually the cheapest and some prefer it for sheet metal. Myself, I use C25 which is 25% CO2/75% argon. CO2 will pop and spatter more and not penetrate as deep as mixed gas. I use C25 because I weld everything from sheet metal to 1 inch thick stuff and in a pinch C25 will weld stainless.
By the way did you switch polarities when you tried flux core?
P.S. If your regulator and tank come with differant fittings don't panic. Argon usually has a different fitting than CO2 and most of the cheaper welder I 've seen come with the fitting for CO2. Your welding gas supplier should have the adaptor on hand.

Last edited by tresi; 04-27-2004 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 04-27-2004, 08:44 PM
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Bottle is too small

If I were you, I'd get a bigger bottle. You'll be refilling that often. I'd buy one from your local welding supplier. It'll probably be cheaper, and when you go to get it refilled, they won't give you as much hassle if you bought the tank from their shop. I know in my area, it's standard procedure for the welding supply companies to ask you for a reciept for your tank before they refill it. I live in Louisiana and alot of Industrial related welding goes on around here. For a while people were stealing the tanks from companies and then getting them refilled and bringing them home. To stop this the welding suppliers started to ask for proof of purchase for the tank. If you purchase it from them, they'll have it on record and it'll be quick and easy. This may not be true everywhere.

Pencilneck
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Old 04-27-2004, 08:53 PM
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Re: Bottle is too small

Quote:
Originally posted by Pencilneck314
If I were you, I'd get a bigger bottle. You'll be refilling that often. I'd buy one from your local welding supplier. It'll probably be cheaper, and when you go to get it refilled, they won't give you as much hassle if you bought the tank from their shop. I know in my area, it's standard procedure for the welding supply companies to ask you for a reciept for your tank before they refill it. I live in Louisiana and alot of Industrial related welding goes on around here. For a while people were stealing the tanks from companies and then getting them refilled and bringing them home. To stop this the welding suppliers started to ask for proof of purchase for the tank. If you purchase it from them, they'll have it on record and it'll be quick and easy. This may not be true everywhere.

Pencilneck
Good point. Bottles are usually just exchanged rather than getting your bottle refilled. In my neck of the woods the only 20 c.f. they carry is oxygen. They don't handle anything smaller than 40 C.F. for CO2, C25 or argon.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2004, 03:57 PM
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I found the best way to go. Randy Fergusen the metal guy that is on the boards ocassionaly told me that C/H welder was not the best choice so i was looking at another 200 to get a good one. So I called all my local welding shops and no-one wants to touch auto-bodies. So I went to this guys shop per my dads request. He is an old guy who does paint and custom vehicles as well as collision repair. I showed him my pictures, and told him my situation. He told me his eyesight is bad and cant do the mig welding anymore. But he told me to let him know when i wanted to and he would open his shop up for me and charge me 150 to do all my welding and he is going to braze my door skin. He is also going to do a fiberglass bondo type stuff on my bed floor. I cant rember the name but it was exactly that purple bondo with a high fiberglass content. He was an awesome person to deal with and am glad i went searching...Thanks for everyones help!!
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Old 04-28-2004, 04:03 PM
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70, good advice on the ch welder. TurboS10 once told me that he liked shopping at walmart, but he wouldn't buy a welder there......

for $150, how bad a job could he do?
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Old 04-28-2004, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by crazy larry
70, good advice on the ch welder. TurboS10 once told me that he liked shopping at walmart, but he wouldn't buy a welder there......

for $150, how bad a job could he do?

Dont remember this, but sounds like something I would say. I got the Hobart Handler 175 from Tractor Supply Company in the kit. It came with cart and auto darkening helmet for $675. It was the best deal I found for a quality welder.

Chris
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Old 04-28-2004, 04:18 PM
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oh hell, now i have to go do a search........

scroll down

hell, we've had this talk before.

70chevy, it's my duty to inform you (as a member of HR.com) you should have done a search too.......
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Old 04-28-2004, 04:24 PM
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Easy on the CH

I have a Campbell Hausfeld and have used it on all my projects and it works fine. I don't consider it to be a Lincoln or a Hobart, but I can tell you it's a solid machine. The speed throttles are sensitive enough to get a consistant weld. You guys have had problems with these machines? I think you guys are being a little too brutal on ole' Campbell. Now Chicago Electric is another story all together, but let's not get them confused.

Pencilneck
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2004, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 70chevy
Ok guys Can you all look at this and tell me do these welds look good. . . . . .
You ran a very nice bead, no problem there. However, the texture of the weld tells a bad story. Notice that the bead looks 'fuzzy'- has a frothy, smooth shape. This is the classic iron oxide look of a weld done in the presence of oxygen (no shielding gas). The bead isn't steel it is iron oxide which is brittle and weak. In fact it doesn't even look like steel. A good sound weld from any welder (TIG, MIG, ARC, Oxy/Acetylene) looks like steel - shiny, sharp edges, like liquid steel that froze in the position, which in fact it is. I am not surprised that the welds hold up under hammering since there is inevitably some steel stringers within the weld that aren't oxidized. However, that weld will likely fail over time.

Mig welding basics
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