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Old 01-05-2011, 09:46 PM
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Welding in a patch panel

I'v got my center transition patch panel for my 64 mustang fit and ready to butt weld in. I had to cut it out of a 66, i was unable to find a store bought panel for it. My question is if YOU had the chance would u weld it from the inside of the car or the underside of the car. The car is on a rotisarry and it's currently on it's left side. The reason i'm asking is i want the patch to b un noticible on the floor. No tracks or ripples from the butt weld and NO bondo over it. I'v seen poeple hammer weld the welds after welding to flatten the weld, But i expermitted in some pieces and it just rippled on the sides of the weld. After i get this patch panel in i will fit the Right rear under seat panel in and butt and plug weld it in. The reason i needed the small center transition pan patch was the floor was rotted through pieces at the flange weld area where both pieces meet. And yes the inside will have the sound deadening and carpet's in it. But the bottom will be primed and painted and no undercoating, I want the bottom to be as shinney as the rest of the car. In the mean time i'll practice more with my Lincoln powermig 180 or the henrob 2000 to see witch will lay the best warp free bead.
Thank you for any input and hope ya like the pictures. HUM it appear's i can't load my photo's, I'll have to work on that oneC-ya Scott

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Old 01-05-2011, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slingslingbinks
I'v got my center transition patch panel for my 64 mustang fit and ready to butt weld in. I had to cut it out of a 66, i was unable to find a store bought panel for it. My question is if YOU had the chance would u weld it from the inside of the car or the underside of the car. The car is on a rotisarry and it's currently on it's left side. The reason i'm asking is i want the patch to b un noticible on the floor. No tracks or ripples from the butt weld and NO bondo over it. I'v seen poeple hammer weld the welds after welding to flatten the weld, But i expermitted in some pieces and it just rippled on the sides of the weld. After i get this patch panel in i will fit the Right rear under seat panel in and butt and plug weld it in. The reason i needed the small center transition pan patch was the floor was rotted through pieces at the flange weld area where both pieces meet. And yes the inside will have the sound deadening and carpet's in it. But the bottom will be primed and painted and no undercoating, I want the bottom to be as shinney as the rest of the car. In the mean time i'll practice more with my Lincoln powermig 180 or the henrob 2000 to see witch will lay the best warp free bead.
Thank you for any input and hope ya like the pictures. HUM it appear's i can't load my photo's, I'll have to work on that oneC-ya Scott
I'm trying to figure out what section you are talking about?

The entire floors are available as one pc, from more than one mfg. I've been told for the early cars you need the Goodmark brand to get the parking brake cable channels:



Anyway, back to your patch, I don't think it really matters what side you weld from, if you get good penetration the weld should look about the same from both sides. If you can get copper behind it while welding, that side would probably require less "dressing".

I did mine before the one pc floors were available so i have long seems at each side of the trans tunnel. I was careful with the welding, careful with the grinding, and I think, like a but weld seam on a 1/4 panel, only minimal filler will be required to make them invisible when painted.
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:07 AM
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I come from a school of welding that teaches, the primary result of welding is distortion the fact that two pieces of metal stick to-gather is only secondary.
Yes, it does make a difference what side you weld from. Let's say you weld from the bottom the distortion will move the floor pan into the cab.
This distortion issue is caused by shrinkage. You can deal with it after you weld your panels with hammer and dolly or deal with the distortion before you weld.
So how do you do that? A friend of mine, Dan who is a VW nut drug home a '67 bus, who's in it's past someone had installed a roof vent and Dan wanted to patch. I told Dan to cut a patch, butt weld with large round corners. I helped him tack weld it in place. Ground the tacks flush. This is the secret. We penned the weld (heat affected zone) area. Dolly on the weld side, hammer on the back side. We raised the weld zone about 3/32" and about 3/4" wide. I formed a sheetmetal box or pan about 2"x4"x1" deep with hole. I brought to his shop my Argon/CO2 bottle with hose and while Dan was welding a continuous pass (not skip) I held the sheetmetal box on the back side of his weld zone, flooding it with gas (purging), the back-up gas helps to support the weld puddle.
Ground the weld flush, some dolly work, looked great.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:27 AM
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The area i'm working on is the right rear floor pan. it rusted out the floor pan AND the center transition pan At the lap weld. I got the floor pan patch from npd, P/N 131-1RH. With the center transition also rusted out at the lap weld i needed a small patch panel for it but nothing is available for this area unless i buy the center transition floor pan, npd P/N 011160-1A for 309.95$. I found a 66 Stang in Pueblo Co. and cut the pan out and fit it to my existing center transition pan. I now have the piece welded in and found out that welding it in from the inside Does make a better appearing weld on the bottom. Sence i can't add my pictures like i want, Heres my post on autobody101.com that has the pictures that u can view. Tks Scott
http://www.autobody101.com/forums/vi...hp?f=6&t=15682
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slingslingbinks
The area i'm working on is the right rear floor pan. it rusted out the floor pan AND the center transition pan At the lap weld. I got the floor pan patch from npd, P/N 131-1RH. With the center transition also rusted out at the lap weld i needed a small patch panel for it but nothing is available for this area unless i buy the center transition floor pan, npd P/N 011160-1A for 309.95$. I found a 66 Stang in Pueblo Co. and cut the pan out and fit it to my existing center transition pan. I now have the piece welded in and found out that welding it in from the inside Does make a better appearing weld on the bottom. Sence i can't add my pictures like i want, Heres my post on autobody101.com that has the pictures that u can view. Tks Scott
http://www.autobody101.com/forums/vi...hp?f=6&t=15682

Sorry, but maybe I'm dense, saw the pics, still not sure where you are working? Do you have a wider shot?

Are you working on this panel?



Anyway, your patch looks nice. Are you going to be Migging it in or Tigging it in?
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:47 PM
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Yes on this panel. It's the right front of your picture u posted, there the center transition pan meet's the floor pan. I used my dhc2000 acc. torch and tig rod.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:54 PM
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How did it come out? What side did you weld from?
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:00 PM
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Welded from the inside out. Waiting for warmer weather to finish it up. I did have some burn out's trying to weld the gap from the panel Clamp's. I'll make a notch for the panel clamps next time and fit the piece in with no gap
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:34 PM
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drill poinr screws !

a lot of times I use drill point screws to pull stuff together to position for welding then pulll them out and spot the holes.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:35 PM
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The screws holding a lap or flange joint together will work to hold the panels together then remove them 1 at a time to Plug weld will work. Duno how it would work on a Butt weld.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:07 AM
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backer

use a piece of scrap as a backer , then you have 2 screw holes at each locations to plug. sometimes I use my hand punch to space the holes for plug welds, sometimes use magnets, , and T prop made out of wood to teeter-totter the piece in alignment,
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:11 AM
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Hey Tim, I got you now. Here is a rough drawing on what i think u are talking about. Check out this idea?. C-Ya Scott
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	Gapless Panel Clamp.JPG
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ID:	51419  
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:21 AM
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Finialy figured out how to do the attachment's. Heres the pic;s on the panel.
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	inside view of patch for the center transistion pan.jpg
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Name:	Underside view of patch for the center transition pan.jpg
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Name:	Repair panel from NPD.jpg
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ID:	51422   Click image for larger version

Name:	Center right side cut out, Note cutout of rotted part of the center transition pan.jpg
Views:	172
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ID:	51423  
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:24 PM
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panel clamps

That's how I use a scrap piece those clamps shown in the first pict work ok for heavier sheet, for real thin stuff I sometimes grindoff a 1/16 where the panel clamp will go so I can butt the pieces tight, and just have the clamp location to fill the gap after the rest is welded. we made a rotesserie a couple years ago, makes it a lot easier to weld when you don't have to lay on your back.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:35 PM
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I could post pictures on here all day on my rotiserrie's all day. Go to my photobucket and check them out. photobucket.com/slingslingbinks
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