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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2007, 08:02 PM
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Magnets can be used to control or manipulate the ARC (in automated welding) but not the puddle itself. Fellows EVERYTHING under the sun has been tried to help in controlling the welding puddle for out of position welding and some of the best welding engineers in the world have dealt with this problem and if it was a simple as placing a magnet on the piece it would have become common practice years ago. A magnet near the weld puddle is a PITA (due to arc instability) and nothing more!

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2007, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techron
wow!! ive been welding well over 30 years and never heard of useing a magnet for welding overhead, what a simple solution. question- solid metal is magnetic, is metal still magnetic when it is in a liquid state???
nope once it gets so hot cant remember the exact number it looses its magnetic properties.
Shane
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Old 07-25-2007, 08:59 PM
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Hay it's rich again,
There is something you can do to reduce
the risk of hot stuff going inside your shirt,
get a piece of soft leather the width of your shield,
& long enough to cover you shirt opening when your
head is tilted back in the welding position, now either
glue it or tape it to the bottom of your shield. also if you're
welding outside you need to protect your gas from the wind

Here is something else you can try,
you need a piece of steel 10-12" long this is for you stick
welding, put a rod in the stinger & the stinger in your welding hand
put your knuckles on the steel with the rod pointing to the other end
of the work & close but not touching, now slowly raise your stinger
keeping the end of the rod close to the work, be ready your going to
get an arc, when you do, hold the stinger there for a moment to check the
puddle & weld a bead keep your eye on the puddle. I will have to finish
this later, I took some medication & I can't keep my eyes open any longer
sorry, I will get back with you. rich
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Old 07-26-2007, 07:54 AM
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The experienced welders here are probably right about magnets not being able to hold a puddle of molten medal. Maybe it was the mass of the magnet cooling the very thin sheet metal I don't know. I was using a 110v mig welder and I was just burning big hole instead of welding. I put a magnet on thinking It might hold the molten metal and I was able to weld it up. I attributed it to the magnet holding the puddle but maybe it was just helping to cool it faster. I never tried it on anything heaver than 20 gauge. On the mig it didn't seam to affect the arc to me, but than I'm a newbe at it.
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:34 AM
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I used some of those neodonyium magnets to hold panels together. Worked great until I got the arc near them, and it started spattering like made. Would not really arc at all. These are strong magnets though. I've welded with welding magnets occasionally, with no problems.
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:35 AM
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You are right about the mass helping to sink off the heat and this is an old trick. A lot of body shop guys like to use a piece of Copper pipe flattened on one end but a small flat piece works really good also, Aluminum can be used too. As far as the arc being affected there is far less of a problem with MIG than stick but in either case if both pieces are touching solidly at the point of the arc then there usually is not much of a problem, the bigger the gap the more trouble it will cause. Sometimes when we ran into magnetized metal on heavy parts (some of these were 14" thick) we would simply have to let the arc wonder around until the first pass tied the parts together, which would eliminate the magnetism, then after finishing the weld go back and cut the first crappy pass out from the back side and re-weld it.
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:42 AM
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I use those high strength Magnets to hold panels flush to Weld them, and have noticed that if I try to use my Tig too close the Magnet will pull my Arc towards it-it doesn't happen if I use my Mig, however-
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:47 AM
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As I said the MIG is not affected nearly as bad for whatever reason but the adverse effects, however slight, can be enough to cause problems in out of position welding. Smaller wires tend to weld out of position better than larger ones and some wires, especially the flux core types, will not weld overhead or vertical at all but some some will weld any position. The common Lincoln MP211, and similar, gas-less flux core will in any position up to wire sizes of 1/6" and even 5/64" (but these sizes are much too big for small shop welders) and the .030-.035 sizes will weld overhead just fine, however some gas-less flux core is for flat welding only. Probably the most forgiving easiest to use out of position wire I know of is the Hobart Excell Arc 71 which is available in .035, this is a true duel-shield wire that is flux cored and requires shielding gas, C25 or straight C02. This stuff makes a really strong high quality weld with a really slick looking bead that would be excellent for frame work and will weld in any position including overhead in wire sizes up to 1/16".
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:52 AM
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If you run CO2, you do not use flux-core. The CO2 is used to shield the puddle. The only reason to run flux-core, is in a windy type situation. It takes more clean up, and normally has more splatter.
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Old 07-26-2007, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildman1932
If you run CO2, you do not use flux-core. The CO2 is used to shield the puddle. The only reason to run flux-core, is in a windy type situation. It takes more clean up, and normally has more splatter.

You should do a little brushing up on your training. They call it dual shield for a reason, not always just flux core. There are many different wires with flux cores, not all are to be used without gas.

From this source:

http://www.grbwelding.com/content/st...s-glossary.htm

Quote:
FLUX CORED ARC WELDING (FCAW) : An arc welding process which melts and joins metals by heating them with an arc between a continuous, consumable electrode wire and the work. Shielding is obtained from a flux contained within the electrode core. Depending upon the type of flux-cored wire, added shielding may or may not be provided from externally supplied gas or gas mixture. Consumables: contact tips, flux cored wire, shielding gas (if required, depends on wire type).
IIRC, CO2 usually gives better penetration. That is why I suggested it in my first post.

Later, mikey
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Old 07-26-2007, 01:25 PM
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Yep, Trying to run a duel shield type flux cored wire without shielding gas will make a mess in a hurry! This type of wire has become about the industry standard for larger welding wire and is rapidly replacing even the smaller solid wires as it becomes available in smaller sizes. That Hobart Excell Arc 71 is a fantastic wire in sizes from .035 on up and I use a heck of a lot of it in 1/16". C02 does indeed give better penetration on most wires but I can see little difference when using it on the Excell Arc so I almost always use C02 with it for everything, cheaper ya know

Last edited by oldred; 07-26-2007 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 07-26-2007, 03:50 PM
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changed my mind about answer
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Old 07-26-2007, 07:58 PM
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Magnets (such as speaker magnets) will explode when they get too hot as each little fragment has north and South poles and causes a violent repulsion. The scar I had from it is all but gone now. One day in welding class some of the other students decided to try to weld a broken magnet well an arc wouldn't strike on it so they tried to torch weld it and I walked by at the wrong time and a little flying hot shard of magnet hit me in the face ....left a nice sized blister to have only been about the side of the ball in a medium pen.
Shane
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevrolet4x4s
Magnets (such as speaker magnets) will explode when they get too hot as each little fragment has north and South poles and causes a violent repulsion.
Shane

Hahahahaha...those are ceramic.

Mikey
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Old 07-27-2007, 08:38 AM
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Wildman

Gas shielded Flux Cored Wires For General Purpose Fabrication
Designed for all-position welding using a shielding gas mixture of either 100%
CO2 or 75%Argon/25%CO2 This gas shielded Flux Cored Carbon Steel Wire
Offers reduced fumes & splatter W/an easy to remove slag.
rich

You may be thinking of self shielding wire, but that isn't real good on
thin metal, because it's AC & transfers all the heat to the work instead
of holding some in the wire/rod like reversed polarity DC.

Last edited by richard stewart 3rd; 07-27-2007 at 08:47 AM.
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