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-   -   Welding upside down????? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/welding-upside-down-120843.html)

tinman386 07-25-2007 10:28 AM

Welding upside down?????
 
OK So ive got a trailer, i went to weld on a new hitch. Switching from 1 7/8 to a 2". I went to weld the new one on and when i go in from underneath upside down it spits and sputters and welds like crap. I even had big chunks of weld down in the gun when i stopped. Here is my welder its a 110 volt lincoln wire feed i am using 75% argon and 25% co2. Its the most argon i can get where i live. When i weld upright everything is fine. do i need a flux core wire? Im not a very good welder by any means but i can lay a decent bead most of the time just not upside down. But rest assure if i can get in this winter i will be taking a welding class at my local tech school. I also have a small stick welder that i cant use because i dont know what im doing. :spank: Thanks in advance to all who can help.

Holder350 07-25-2007 11:05 AM

check your shielding gas. Make sure that your regulator isnt turned down. A MIG should weld upsidedown without any problem.

powerrodsmike 07-25-2007 11:16 AM

Welding upside down with a mig usually requires a little cooler heat setting. That is when using a properly sized welder.

You'd probably do better with a bigger welder, that 110 won't do anything thicker than 1/8 without preheating. You could also try straight co2.

I have one of those 110 lincolns on gas and I won't use it on anything over 1/8 ...period.

Later, mikey

daoldbuick 07-25-2007 11:18 AM

The reason your having so much trouble welding upside down is in the nature of welding. The arc turns the steel to liquid and since there is nothing to hold it until it cools, gravity pulls it to the ground. I don't know how this would apply to your situation but the only time I had any luck overhead welding was on sheet metal. I took a old speaker magnet and put it on the sheet above the spot I wanted to weld. Then when I struck and arc most (but not all) of the molten metal was suspended by the magnet until it cooled. I don't know why the molten metal didn't weld to the speaker, It must have been a different kind of metal. If where your welding is angle iron this might work but if it's tube steel the magnet would be to far away. I'm not a welder either so maybe someone else has a better way.

wildman1932 07-25-2007 12:04 PM

From 40 years of training, welding over head can be done. We do it every day. It takes a higher skill level. It sounds like it was to hot, or not clean enough material.
The magnet deal made me chuckle.
Straight CO2 is fine, and cheaper.

oldred 07-25-2007 12:11 PM

Practice, practice, then practice :)

daoldbuick 07-25-2007 01:07 PM

Hey wildman1932. Please try "that magnet deal that made you chuckle" and let us know what you think. Maybe old dogs can learn new tricks ;) :D Or maybe I just thought it worked better :confused:

61bone 07-25-2007 04:44 PM

You better believe I'm going to try the magnet trick. Great ideas often come from someone who just didn't know better. Kudos to you. :)

techron 07-25-2007 05:17 PM

wow!! ive been welding well over 30 years and never heard of useing a magnet for welding overhead, what a simple solution. question- solid metal is magnetic, is metal still magnetic when it is in a liquid state???

richard stewart 3rd 07-25-2007 06:42 PM

Hi,
For out of position welding such as overhead or
vertical you need flux core wire, w/your gas straight co2
is fine.

When your o-o-p wherein the weld puddle can't be
maintained. for this, control of the flux mix to provide
a stable puddle of low fluidity, & rapidly freezes is
essential to prevent puddle drip.

Also if this metal is over 1/8" thick, you'll need to
make about 3 passes, When your at the welding supply,
ask the guy to look-up what is the best flux mix for the
job at hand.
Good luck,
rich

PS you can't get enough practice,
get two pieces of steel about the thickness of whatever your welding,
tack them together on the ends, so it looks like a T or an L clamp it to
something that's over your head, & start running beads, if you only
weld one side you can then break the weld & check for penetration,
then clean it up (grinder) & weld it again & again, until your somewhat
sure of yourself, if you can get some kind of protection, I have everything
your supposed to have to keep from getting burnt, I also have burn
marks on my chest & all over my left arm, what I'm telling you is your
going to get burnt, how bad depends on what your wearing right down to
shoes/boots

Rambo_The_Dog 07-25-2007 07:20 PM

Bevel any edges and turn your wire feed up a little higher than you would welding normally.

A good ground and clean metal for the weld path also makes a difference so make sure you're on clean bare metal for both.

powerrodsmike 07-25-2007 07:21 PM

Magnets for overhead welding
 
I heard one time from a old machinist/fabricator that you can heat up metal until it loses it's magnetism. This is the proper temp for forging.


Here is one such reference to this phenomenon put to use., (I think it is called the Curie point.)

http://www.ehow.com/how_2064740_forg...arrowhead.html


I don't think the magnet does anything.

Later, mikey

oldred 07-25-2007 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techron
is metal still magnetic when it is in a liquid state???

No- When welding very heavy sections magnetized metal is a common problem as it causes the arc to be really unstable and very hard to control with a LOT of spatter. It is rare to run into magnetized metal on something as thin as that frame and it sure seems to me like it would cause a lot of control problems, however this is all beside the point as a piece of metal will cease to be magnetized at around 400-500 deg anyway. I have had to fight :mad: with magnetized parts for years and it is nothing but a PITA, I can not imagine intentionally placing a magnet near an electric weld and it will not hold molten metal in place anyway.

Metal Twister 07-25-2007 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daoldbuick
The reason your having so much trouble welding upside down is in the nature of welding. The arc turns the steel to liquid and since there is nothing to hold it until it cools, gravity pulls it to the ground. I don't know how this would apply to your situation but the only time I had any luck overhead welding was on sheet metal. I took a old speaker magnet and put it on the sheet above the spot I wanted to weld. Then when I struck and arc most (but not all) of the molten metal was suspended by the magnet until it cooled. I don't know why the molten metal didn't weld to the speaker, It must have been a different kind of metal. If where your welding is angle iron this might work but if it's tube steel the magnet would be to far away. I'm not a welder either so maybe someone else has a better way.

Good thinking! thats called "arc wonder" You used it to your advantage! most often you want to keep the magnet away from the the arc for that very reason. It draws the arc away from the work, or puddle. In alot of the automated processes magnents are used to control, and manipulate the puddle. Its not a good idea around tig welding. It can really screw you up!

powerrodsmike 07-25-2007 07:31 PM

I know that I will use a magnet to hold a peice of metal in position to tack it, then remove the magnet. I have only done this on thinner material, 1/4 and less, so I never experienced the spatter and uncontrolled behavior like Oldred. .

I do also know that you can't do any kind of tig welding near a magnet, on any thickness, so that would also be in keeping with what Oldred said.


Mikey


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