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Old 06-13-2012, 11:00 PM
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What is the best method to treat surface rust in doors

Hello all,
Haven't been on here in a while. I have been researching about rust treatment, POR15 and silver bullet. I can't conclude what I should do. I need some advice based on my specific situation.

I want to clean up the backside (inside section) of the door skin. What I have done is cut the sheetmetal which would be the Inside piece in the car. This is the metal that the door panel upholstery would mount to.

So now I have easy access to the door skin from the inside. This is where all the water would drain down from the glass. There aren't any holes from the surface, just lots of scaling and surface rust.

What I have done is scrubbed and rubbed all the rusty metal with a Emory cloth. This got rid of alot of the loose rust (came off as dust, my sinusus hated me the next day). There is still some of the surface rust (dust) on the metal but it seems that no matter what I do I cant get rid of it.

I want to treat the metal somehow to protect it and prevent any further rust from starting. Keep in mind that in many spots I can't spray in a uniform manner. And some areas are so tight and ackward that I can't even get a brush.

What do you suggest I do about treating this surface rust? I can take some pictures tomorrow if that helps, but I don't think I could really capture this situation with a picture.

My concern about POR15 is the fact that is needs to be top coated ALSO all the prep work is a major concern. IN those tight spaces and ackward corners I wont be able to really clean the rust with an emory cloth or other prep method.

Rust bullet is another option but I can't find much data on it.

Eastwood has a chemical called Rust Converter. This seems like what I need, but I believe that even requires a top coat of paint.
They also have Rust Encapsulator which looks and cost similar to Rust Rullet but there is even less data on that.

What do you suggest I do. Please only provide facts and base your response on personal experience.

Thank you

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Old 06-14-2012, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Racing
Hello all,
Haven't been on here in a while. I have been researching about rust treatment, POR15 and silver bullet. I can't conclude what I should do. I need some advice based on my specific situation.

I want to clean up the backside (inside section) of the door skin. What I have done is cut the sheetmetal which would be the Inside piece in the car. This is the metal that the door panel upholstery would mount to.

So now I have easy access to the door skin from the inside. This is where all the water would drain down from the glass. There aren't any holes from the surface, just lots of scaling and surface rust.

What I have done is scrubbed and rubbed all the rusty metal with a Emory cloth. This got rid of alot of the loose rust (came off as dust, my sinusus hated me the next day). There is still some of the surface rust (dust) on the metal but it seems that no matter what I do I cant get rid of it.

I want to treat the metal somehow to protect it and prevent any further rust from starting. Keep in mind that in many spots I can't spray in a uniform manner. And some areas are so tight and ackward that I can't even get a brush.

What do you suggest I do about treating this surface rust? I can take some pictures tomorrow if that helps, but I don't think I could really capture this situation with a picture.

My concern about POR15 is the fact that is needs to be top coated ALSO all the prep work is a major concern. IN those tight spaces and ackward corners I wont be able to really clean the rust with an emory cloth or other prep method.

Rust bullet is another option but I can't find much data on it.

Eastwood has a chemical called Rust Converter. This seems like what I need, but I believe that even requires a top coat of paint.
They also have Rust Encapsulator which looks and cost similar to Rust Rullet but there is even less data on that.

What do you suggest I do. Please only provide facts and base your response on personal experience.

Thank you
When i had my doors stripped out and found surface rust i used a converter sprayed internally out of a small touch up gun which was modified. I connected a flexible piece of fuel line about 6 inches long. between the small paint pot ( 1 1/2" in dia.) and the underside of the gun head which allowed me to spray in all directions with my arm in the door. BAsically a flexible spray gun. Primer then topcoat (2k) using the same gun. After a week i soaked the entire internal door cavity with fish oil for those small internal corners which are invisible. That was two years ago and when the weather gets hot the weep holes in the bottom of the doors drip two or three drops of fish oil out onto the ground.
Al.
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Mustang Al.
When i had my doors stripped out and found surface rust i used a converter sprayed internally out of a small touch up gun which was modified. I connected a flexible piece of fuel line about 6 inches long. between the small paint pot ( 1 1/2" in dia.) and the underside of the gun head which allowed me to spray in all directions with my arm in the door. BAsically a flexible spray gun. Primer then topcoat (2k) using the same gun. After a week i soaked the entire internal door cavity with fish oil for those small internal corners which are invisible. That was two years ago and when the weather gets hot the weep holes in the bottom of the doors drip two or three drops of fish oil out onto the ground.
Al.
Al,

What rust converter did you use?

Eastwood also has some Aerosol based rust converters and even some primers that come with a long hose too perform the same process.

I definitely think that doing both doors would require an actualy spray gun or larger reservoir than an aerosol can, but I guess I could always buy more than one aerosol can???

I am really look for specific product recommendations.
Thanks
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Racing
Al,

What rust converter did you use?

Eastwood also has some Aerosol based rust converters and even some primers that come with a long hose too perform the same process.

I definitely think that doing both doors would require an actualy spray gun or larger reservoir than an aerosol can, but I guess I could always buy more than one aerosol can???

I am really look for specific product recommendations.
Thanks
Septone rust converter or equivalent in a plastic bottle. Phosphoric acid is the active ingredient regardless of brand. A small compressor and spray gun will give you a much better spread than canned paint. Canned paint wont get into the corners as well as a 40-50 psi gun will.
Do it once , and do it well.
al.
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:34 AM
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I don't think POR15 needs to be top coated. It does break down from UV rays, but stands up very well otherwise. Pretty sure there won't be much sunlight inside your doors.
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1pickup
I don't think POR15 needs to be top coated. It does break down from UV rays, but stands up very well otherwise. Pretty sure there won't be much sunlight inside your doors.
Thats a "BRIGHT IDEA".
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:58 AM
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The way I spray acid is with a plastic pump bottle an old windex bottle works great..and dont go with any of these copy cat wanna be converters,go with the original ....Get yourself some OSPHO ..its been around since the 40's and REMOVES rust you'll actually watch the rust running off then it converts whats left...Once you squirt the inside of the doors use an air blower to blow it into all the cracks and crevises and in the folded lips...give it a fresh squirt keeping everything wet every10 min or so spray it two or three times and let it drain out a while then set the door upside down and put a bunch of paper shop towels down to soak up all the excess...let it dry like that for a couple days... You can top coat it or not but I use epoxy in the doors....Lots of it.
you'll like the price too 20-30.00 for a qt. and thats more than enough for the whole car inside and out...
BTW, dont try to" neutralize" it with water it it dosent need it just let it dry for a couple days.Using water BEFORE it drys just washes it off (water dilutes acid) and AFTER it drys water wont do anything. I've been using this stuff for 35 yrs without a hitch I know how well it works when its used right..
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:37 AM
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A small Hudson type of sprayer will help you get into the tight spots.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:06 AM
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Ospho...

X2,X3,And X4 on the Ospho,ive used it for years,works great,then 2K primer...
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
The way I spray acid is with a plastic pump bottle an old windex bottle works great..and dont go with any of these copy cat wanna be converters,go with the original ....Get yourself some OSPHO ..its been around since the 40's and REMOVES rust you'll actually watch the rust running off then it converts whats left...Once you squirt the inside of the doors use an air blower to blow it into all the cracks and crevises and in the folded lips...give it a fresh squirt keeping everything wet every10 min or so spray it two or three times and let it drain out a while then set the door upside down and put a bunch of paper shop towels down to soak up all the excess...let it dry like that for a couple days... You can top coat it or not but I use epoxy in the doors....Lots of it.
you'll like the price too 20-30.00 for a qt. and thats more than enough for the whole car inside and out...
BTW, dont try to" neutralize" it with water it it dosent need it just let it dry for a couple days.Using water BEFORE it drys just washes it off (water dilutes acid) and AFTER it drys water wont do anything. I've been using this stuff for 35 yrs without a hitch I know how well it works when its used right..
Are you on the Ospho payroll? If not, you should be
I have talked to you in the past about Ospho, in fact I bought a gallon because of your recommendation. I have used it everywhere to clean the rust off the metal. But, I never thought it really neutralized the rust. In fact, I have some areas that have that White milky buildup from the metal oxidizing from Ospho that I didn't clean off every well.

So You are suggesting that I use Ospho to form that Black protective barrier, rinse off with water than spray Epoxy primer on top?
I already have all those materials so I can easily try this over the weekend.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:10 AM
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Beware of the black "protective" coating.

That coating is actually just a very thin layer depending on how thick the rust is.

Do a little experiment on the black coating: Hit it with a wire brush in a drill and see if it comes off and exposes fresh rust beneath.
I use the black as an indication that there is still rust on the panel.
When you can apply the converter and no more black appears, this is when the rust is gone.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:41 AM
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I think that you're on to something pugsy123. I've been doing some experimenting with ospho and that makes the most sense to me! I reapply, wire brush, red pad, reapply until there is no black, reapply one last time to activate the ospho, rub with a wet rag to neutralize the acid, let dry and epoxy. Search ospho, there's a lot of info on it, some good and some bad. I started out with por 15 and that was a waste of time and money! Lots of the rust that I'm cutting out now is coated with por15! I use an automatic spring loaded punch to find the bad spots. If the punch doesn't blow through the rust, then the metal is good and I use ospho. If the punch blows through the metal, I replace it. It's like hitting an ice pick with a hammer!
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Racing
Are you on the Ospho payroll? If not, you should be
I have talked to you in the past about Ospho, in fact I bought a gallon because of your recommendation. I have used it everywhere to clean the rust off the metal. But, I never thought it really neutralized the rust. In fact, I have some areas that have that White milky buildup from the metal oxidizing from Ospho that I didn't clean off every well.

So You are suggesting that I use Ospho to form that Black protective barrier, rinse off with water than spray Epoxy primer on top?
I already have all those materials so I can easily try this over the weekend.
No,I'm not on OSPHO's or SPI's payroll nor do I receive free materials from them...(hint,hint) They're just the best products in this business and come with my highest recommendations...
........NEVER rinse "Ospho" with water.......just wipe off the excess with a paper shop towel and let dry...scuff it up as best as you can clean with W&G then epoxy...thats for inside the doors and hard to reach areas...
Doing the outside of a car is very different I dont use it as a converter but a rust remover and I work it in with a 4" side grinder and coarse wire wheels until the rust is gone..Its a lot of work but its something anyone can do anywhere without spending much.
I dont believe in any of those paint on, ez fix products,If you want it to last its a lot of work.Thats about the long and short of it...
Using it as a converter isnt the best way to use this but sometimes its all you can do, like with those doors...you can try getting a small wire wheel in there or sand blast what you can first but its nearly impossible sometimes,and scrape off the undercoating first,(of coarse)
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy
Beware of the black "protective" coating.

That coating is actually just a very thin layer depending on how thick the rust is.

Do a little experiment on the black coating: Hit it with a wire brush in a drill and see if it comes off and exposes fresh rust beneath.
I use the black as an indication that there is still rust on the panel.
When you can apply the converter and no more black appears, this is when the rust is gone.
Your absolutly right Puggs I always wire wheel it first and clean with W&G before I use it....and donrt be afraid to apply it more than once the more you let it dry and redo it the better it gets...It'll start shinning.
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:58 AM
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But the BEST way would be to seperate the two pieces clean them and epoxy the two pieces then put them back together...It's a lot more work than most are willing to do or pay for so it rarely gets done...I did make a skin seperating tool that allows you to unfold the lips of a skin without distorting the outer skin...Its a pretty simple tool to make, if anyones interested...
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