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Old 11-25-2004, 10:10 PM
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what cars come with 5-wire O2 sensors?

is there any cars that come stock with 5-wire O2 sensors?

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2004, 12:22 PM
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Dig around in here

http://lists.bottomoftheboot.com/pipermail/wbo2/

You should be able to find applications part #'s and prices. I think $160 is about as cheep as they come

This is just one email on the list
Quote:
My feedback for the cost being lower on the Bosch came from one of the big three directly. You can guess which one by what is used as the O2 sensor on their products. There. I have not violated the corporate confidentiality agreement!

I am mentioning commercial organizations to indicate where sensors and/or information can be found. I mention a few more below to indicate ranges of prices, and the seeming dominance of the LSU type sensor (see comment under Bosch). I in no way am trying to sell, endorse or advocate for any of these organizations.

I can suggest that going to a wrecking yard is a good idea; I picked up 2 sensors one from a Caddy and one from a Suburban (Bosch) for $20. Yes, they both work.

New Bosch Sensors are US$59 (LSU4)while NTKs (L2's) are US$185. From

http://www.plxdevices.com/onlinestore.htm

Also see:
SHO NUT Performance (In the misc section Part#36531-P07-003) http://www.shonutperformance.com/

Napa Online (Item# ECHOS791) http://www.napaonline.com/cgi-bin/nc...ine/homepage.d
2w/report

HParts (Part# 36531-P07-003) http://www.hparts.com/

NTK L1H1/L2H2:

The L1H1 sensor was originally used by Honda in their 92-95 Honda Civic 3 Door, 1.5 VTEC OEM Part# (36531-P07-003). The L2H2 sensor is NTK's new sensor revision, higher quality, more rugged design and is 100% compatible with the L1H1.

Good Info on NTK http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/wbntk.htm (Peter's Site) http://ngksparkplugs.home.att.net/ws...ome.html-.html (this page has an interesting power point)


Bosch LSU4/LSU4.2 Sensor Info:

This sensor is more commercially available than the NTK and is used in production cars such as, Porche, Audi, VW, Subaru, Cadillac, and Volvo.

Good Info on Bosch

http://www.boschusa.com/AutoParts/FAQs/OxygenSensors/

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0407phr_bosch/

Bosch has a newer, resistive type sensor which might be interesting. I don't know that it is used commercially yet however. To quote:
"Titania: These sensors use a different type of oxygen sensing technology and instead of generating a voltage signal that changes with the air/fuel ratio, the sensor's resistance changes. These sensors are used on less than 0.5% of all oxygen sensor equipped vehicles."


I'm sure different markets sell these parts for what they can get. That's why it is important to shop around.

I learn a lot form this forum. Thanks to all of you.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: wbo2-bounces@diy-efi.org [mailto:wbo2-bounces@diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Peter Gargano
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 1:11 PM
To: wbo2@diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Wbo2] Honda O2 sensor

Some collected responses...

Marteney, Steve wrote:
> What's the catch? Anyone know the tradeoffs between this sensor and

Price is never a good guide of quality, particularly when motorsport is involved.

> others, or is it the same? I'm suspicious that a sensor that
> normally sells (on the cheap) for ~$180 would sell for not much more
> than your standard 1 wire. Are there any zirc, heated O2s that have
> 5 wires instead of four? I just can't overcome my pessimism (or
> spell it).

The VW sensor (see our web site http://wbo2.com/lsu) is such low cost (apparently, and I don't have any supporting documentation that proves this, but this is the story I hear) because VW had some problems with some early LSU sensors, and was forced to make them available at very low cost. In fact the price has risen from around US$28 to now close to US$40. In Australia the price for this same (7057) sensor is around $400.

Also, someone mentioned a commercial organisation selling a WBo2 controller, I feel compelled to mention that we sell a WBo2 controller
too. It's available as a DIY kit, see ...

http://wbo2.com/2a0/kit.htm

The 2A0 unit comes with inbuilt logging channels and logging memory, and is also sold as a pre-built. We're coming out, before Xmas, with a low
cost design that has a display at the end of the case, and this will
also be available as a DIY kit. This is all the info I have just now ..

http://wbo2.com/2e0/proto-1.jpg

Ron Vinsant wrote:
> The Bosch Technology is entirely different (lower cost) than the NTK.
> The tolerance of the measurement is quite similar for the same
> conditioning circuitry.

I'm not convinced the Bosch technology is lower cost - just a little different because Honda and NGK hold the patents for the original Vs/Ip sense/pump cell (5 wire) technology. NTK is the (NGK offshoot) ceramics company that has commercialised the Honda/NGK technology.

Jim Blackwood wrote:
> That's the Bosch LSU4.2 5 wire sensor, is this the same as the NTK1?

There are subtle differences in the LSU and NTK technologies, and they must be driven differently and this is one of the reasons we never offered an upgraded DIY-WB unit for the LSU sensor, but went to a professional design with full microprocessor control.


Regards, Peter Gargano
--
Tech Edge Pty. Ltd. http://techedge.com.au http://WBo2.com
ph : (02) 6251 5519 Int'l : +612 6251 5519 Fax : +612 6251 0558
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2004, 06:29 PM
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For the time being First VW parts online store is the cheapest place to get it. Problem is that all the places doing the diy WBO2 stuff are ordering in huge quantities. The manuafacturors are starting to ask questions. When I got mine a few months back they told me the prices are likely to go up soon.

Chris
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