I'm getting ready to get my car re-painted and i want to put together a contract where the workshop would sign their agreement.
I had a very bad experience in the past where i was promised a quality that was not delivered. I just don't want to go through the same ordeal again. So this time, i want it to be legally biding. This is what i want and expect...you agree to do it...put your signature on it.
So far this is what i have:
1. No dust specs
2. No fish eyes
3. No orange peel
4. No over spray
5. Smooth edges
6. Perfectly flush/aligned panel gaps(?)
Please help me complete the list. I want to put on the list as much things as i can, no matter how obvious or trivial.
you just outlined what top shops or top painters do anyway . You will not get this from Maaco. So have your 10K to 15K ready.
I would think you are going to find it tuff to find a shop that will take your car. with you walking in with all sorts of written demands. They will see it as no matter how perfect the job is done , You are going to find something to B about.
I understand your concerns , But that means you need to do your homework first. Head out to the shows and when you see a paint job you like ask the owner who did it.
Also go to a shop that pumps out Quality not Quantity!!
well that could be a good thing or bad thing.. the bad, no one will sign it.. the good, someone will sign it but the price will go way up.
i would want and expect the same as u.. but unless your gonna pony up some big bucks, like $10 grand, i don't think it'll get signed.. but i do hope someone does.. it sucks to pay for the same thing 2 times..
First, I'd tell you to take a hike, his next customer is standing right behind you.
What language will you put into the contract to cover that dust speck you find 2 months later? A re-paint? $50.00 fine per speck? A 2 dust speck allowance, after that $100.00 chargeback each?
I'm sure even Foose would like to claw back a paint job or two.
It's just a car. Find a quality shop even if it's in another state and trust them to do the best job they can and move along.
Here are a few things to consider in your quest for perfection.
I have been a custom painter since the early seventies. There is no perfect job if you look hard enough. I have looked at cars done by some of the most famous builders and painters, and have had no problem finding flaws. I will add that some people can find flaws easily... and some just can't seem to see them at all! I'm sure some of those who are partially blind are painters.
The condition of your car has a lot to do with the cost, and how it will look finished. Old cars... and especially old trucks... are the worst as far as damage and misalignment, so bare in mind what the painter may have to start with.
If you choose lighter colors, they will hide those tiny imperfections better. Solid colors are also a little more forgiving.
I will agree with other's advise, and say... look at what kind of work different shops are doing.
Also consider that you will always get about what you pay for, so if you want them to spend the extra time to work on those endless details, decide which is most important. Your finished result.... or the price! If you want both, you will probably be sadly disappointed.
Jay is right on the money, there is NO SUCH THING as a "perfect" paint job, or anything on a car, NO SUCH THING. If a person with passion can't walk around an award winning center arena show car and not find something they have their eyes closed!
It simply can't be done. If I did the "perfect" paint job someone else would come along and find something and up it another notch, then someone else would come and up it further and so on and so on.
What I often like to do is when I find one of those real special cars, detailed to the max, I will keep looking, deeper and deeper into where I am not suppose to look until I find those flaws. Often I have to look very deep, but even the most passionate builder will "give up" at some point.
But those are the cars I enjoy seeing the most at a show, those are the ones that stop me in my tracks and I don't care what kind of car it is, one that I don't even like, a four door Plymouth Valiant, I don't care. When they are done with that kind of passion I am RIGHT THERE to examine it.
The way I deal with this issue is what I call "practical perfectionism". I will make it as perfect as the budget will allow.
The bottom cutoff is... If I can't be proud of it, it won't go out the door... or maybe I'll just refuse the job. There are plenty of painters out there who don't really care how it looks, so they work cheap.
The perfect paint job is the one when people ask where did you get that done?
not so much to avoid you but to try and find you.. A good painter should be hard to find ...
Brian :
"Jay is right on the money, there is NO SUCH THING as a "perfect" paint job, or anything on a car, NO SUCH THING. If a person with passion can't walk around an award winning center arena show car and not find something they have their eyes closed!"
I was going to praise Jay for his post (but you already did) LOL That's a perfect post for a "perfect paint" job
" NO SUCH THING " No shop in their right mind would sign a contract like that LOL
freefallin:
The perfect Concourse cars (worth millions of dollars) have paint jobs on high point cars with over spray everywhere in the right places, runs and sags in the right places, Even scratches in the right places on some the left and right doors have different door gaps or are crooked because of the stampings, even areas that are paint bare (primer showing) if not the price and car points drop!!! So some perfect paint jobs must have many flaws!
George Barris, Rat Fink, The Alexander Brothers ,ETC in their prime would not sign a contract like yours to do a perfect paint job !
A great paint job on a show car is the car with the less flaws! A great S.S. paint 6000 dollar job can beat a custom candy multi layered flamed custom paint 50,000 dollar job if it has a few less flaws in the paint for judging!! But the car that doesn't have the Best paint can win "BEST CAR IN SHOW" That is the trophy to look for "best in show" with a great paint job not perfect
I never saw a car just painted or later that I cant find flaws in.
Jester
At shows when I judged owners used to put Trophys or pictures, parts of the display even angle hair in front or over paint flaws so spectators could not see them!! But judges get to move those to examin paint and can pick out the flaws! and Judges catch hell when they pick a winner because no one else saw those flaws! In mags photographers hide the flaws on award winning cars and motorcycles LOL or air brush them ! A nude or bikini model is a great way to draw the eye away from the FLAW LOL Laying flames to draw the eye and hide flaws is a great way !!!
At the Grand National Roadster show when my brothers Roadster was in it the winner in his class "Altered street roadster" was the "Infiniti flyer" an Infiniti powered Model A Roadster. 1929 Infiniti Q29 Flyer | Mecum Auctions
I spoke with one of the judges and he said that car (at the time) had the best paint he had ever seen. I was told they spent something mind blowing like 600 hours on the paint work.....on the FRAME alone! The paint ALONE on the car was something like $65K! It was lacquer as I remember, and it was stunning!
Got a question: On a scale from 1-10. What would you rate a typical factory paint job. Yes, some can be horrible so OEM finishes are not consistent. For the sake of argument, lets say the average factory paint job...where would it be on the scale, in your opinion?
On the scale from 1 being a spray can paint job in the driveway and 10 being the Infiniti flyer I described in my last post, the typical factory paint is about a 1.5 at best. In actuallity it would be more like a 1 along with the spray can paint! You would have to have a wider range like 1-100. In that case the factory would be a 2 at best. THAT is how be the difference is between a "nice" paint job and the kind of REAL show car paint job we are talking about when we use the word "perfect".
But then again, what are the expectations of the owner? I see nothing what so ever wrong with a factory finish on most cars, including rods. It's plenty for goodness sakes. But when you toss out the word "Perfect", not we go to another planet. No factory paint job could come anywhere near "perfect".
the perfect paint job is the one you feel you happy with even a 300.00 paint job would be the perfect paint job on a 92 toyota corola...a perfect 10,000 paint job on the same car...........not so much....what do you have? everything you've described is an ordinary paint job at my shop on any car..it all starts with the bodywork not the paint...and stripping to the metal.
For fun though I think if you put no swirl marks on the list you would be raising the bar. Another might be done on time..
When I'm painting something for someone I stop thinking of the project at hand and realize I already got this one but it is the one that will bring the next one so it better look good to the world more than "good enough" for the customer and I can be very picky and redo things the customer might let slide but never sees or hears about.
What are you gonna have painted by the way?
all good information above
expect to pay a minimum of $100,000 for a perfect paint job that meets all of your ''no nothing'' list
even if you could find a shop that would sign that list
you might want to add 'no rock chips for a year' to your list
Ever noticed how a paint job can be the best you've ever done, and only have that one little fleck in the whole car………………………………………… and it's always in the same place, right in the middle of the drivers side of the hood. ain:
I'd say a perfect paint job starts at 40k, bodywork/gaps not included. This most likely means a free rub before major car shows and it's really a marriage more than anything. The cars never leave. When they do they come back and they complain about swirls THEY created washing it or what we can do about rock chips THEY created or if we can sand and rub out little superficial scratches in the clear THEY created for free cause they paid so much. In the end it could be the perfect paint job but more times than not the guy paying is not a perfect customer. For some reason when you explain the curing process to these types and how it will need a rub once it stops shrinking they seem to take that as an open door for constant pampering of the paint as if wear and tear is warranted or that since you said you'd give them a complimentary rub down the line that it includes everything else they did to the paint between the time it was delivered to when the complimentary rub is scheduled.
There was a body shop across the parking lot from my (former) business. I had noticed the same car come back numerous times, and the owner pointing and obviously complaining, so I asked the body guys what was up with the guy. apparently his latest visit was to complain that he could see swirl marks in the paint, and admonished the body guys to look at it in moonlight, as they just didn't show up in daylight conditions.
true story. you can't make this stuff up.
and freefallin, don't get scared off by these ribbing posts
we're just funnin this thread because we've all been asked for the perfect job
be it paint, carpentry, lawn mowing or shoveling out the barn
nothing is perfect, no point trying to get perfection
especially on a vehicle that is being driven on any road
I think there's plenty of painters out there that can do the work but the unknowns like bodywork and multiple primes take up a lot of time. Prepping and buffing is just as important as the painter. The last painter I worked with was strictly production and at first he was very bad but after a few screw ups and some adjustments I made him look like a star with good prepping and buffing, and he even said so himself. In a shop it adds up fast. If the guy is doing it solo than a 30k job could be a 15k job, but it's obviously harder to trust or find the right guy.
I'd look for straight bodywork and leave a little orange peel on it so you have something to sacrifice later down the road.
This is why I love it when one guy did it all. Usually those near perfect show cars are done by one guy, metal to polished top coat. To have a bunch of guys pull off the same as what one guy with passion can do is rare.
Well since we are on the topic of perfection... I just gotta say you guys here on this forum are definitely the perfect crowd!
Really appreciate your replies!
Before i say anything else... i would like to know everyone's opinion on the average factory/OEM paint job. On a scale from 1-10, what would you rate it? Of course 10 being "perfect" (to you).
MATINSR said 1-1.5. Really high standards there...what about the rest of you?
OEM metallics are pretty bad depending on the manufacture. lexus doesn't have the tiger stripes but Gm does. OEM paint is thinner and harder than any aftermarket paint. When they paint them at the manufacture the heat is around 240 degrees but in a shop it's around 140 because of plastic now in the car. You also don't get dirt in a perfectly controlled environment but you do with aftermarket paints in paint booths with people painting them. It's a pretty loaded question to ask which is better cause both certain advantages...
aftermarket is great cause the clear is thicker and you have some to sacrifice later but the flip side is scratches are caused much easier with aftermarket paints, and I don't care what brand it is, it's simply not going to be as hard as OEM PERIOD! Plus a lot of shops don't even use hardener in their base coats. Then again, you're not gonna see a robotic arm spray a metallic as good as a good painter. Another thing to mention is the acid bath...my wife's honda could have a bare metal spot and it will rust instantly, but I have them too on my Jetta and I can see the bare metal has been exposed for years and hasn't even started to form rust. Good luck achieving that in a shop. I can go and on but I like OEM paint as well as aftermarket. Can't cut OE M clear to flat but why would you? If the paint is good it's likely new.
we do sema cars every year, some get a total repaint, some use the base oem paint with added highlites
wet sanding and buffing oem paint can turn oem paint into sema paint
all oem paint is bc/cc and baked in ovens for curing, it will resist chips and scratches better than any aftermarket paint
so i'm going to bump martinsr's 1.5 to a 4
This is when it comes to the what are the owners expectations. Because for your typical car owner, or even hot rodder one of those "perfect" paint jobs would be a 10 on the scale of 1-100 with the factory paint job being 90 because of the durablility and over all quality being by far "perfect". I wish my Gran Sport had a factory paint job on it, I wouldn't be so freaked about driving it. Not that it's one of those show jobs by any means (that wasn't my expectations) but because it's not nearly as durable as a late model cars factory paint.
It's all what we are after, that is what really matters.
Brian
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