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Old 06-28-2013, 07:11 AM
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What do you guys prefer for using as a "guide coat"?

Assume the metal is covered in 2 or 3 coats of epoxy. and at some point it will be blocked out with something like 180 grit. Do you prefer the old rattle can as a guide coat? Or do you prefer the dry guide coat? Which and why?

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Old 06-28-2013, 08:24 AM
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Dry, it covers EVERYTHING, every single spec of your primer with the same perfect guide coat. It is very fine so it will show you EVERYTHING. No overspray, no odor, it is a win, win, win, win.

I am sold big time on the dry guide coat.

Brian
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:33 AM
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Fantastic! Do you have a preference for a brand? I only know of the 3M one
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:34 AM
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I like the dry stuff when You want to work an area and not get the guide coat anywhere else but I don't like using it for hot rod restorations. It's not definitive enough where you can see the trueness of a body line. With rattle can you can just spray a little extra on a line and know the exact condition of it by just blocking one side of it. The powder stuff is awful for that, but I do like the dry stuff, don't get me wrong.
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:36 AM
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Interesting
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:36 AM
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I can see that, for body lines paint is better. That is more shaping, where the dry is better for fine perfection, that is a good point.

Brian
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:42 AM
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I think you mean more accurate for scratches. That's true but a restoration that gets blocked and blocked and primed and primed doesn't need that. It's more important in a production shop cause they are spot repairs and you don't have to worry about overspray, and scratches are more of a concern for production, especially with your silvers. When our shop old man does bodywork on production and the painter has 2 thin coats of 2k on his mind he'll end up priming twice. He doesn't use guide coat at all! DOH!
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:07 AM
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Must be something with old timers. My Dad doesn't guide coat either; but I have no time to do my best Helen Keller routine when I can use a guide coat. Ive always used a spray bomb; cuz Im cheap LOL But I figure Brian makes some good points and whats $30? I assume that cartridge lasts forever anyway.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoGear View Post
Must be something with old timers. My Dad doesn't guide coat either; but I have no time to do my best Helen Keller routine when I can use a guide coat. Ive always used a spray bomb; cuz Im cheap LOL But I figure Brian makes some good points and whats $30? I assume that cartridge lasts forever anyway.
same here, dad doesn't use one either, he says it's all in the feel.
but he doesn't like body filler either, he uses a pick and file on the older "real"(as he calls it)metal that older cars had..
the last dual cowl Packard he did was black. man was the paint deep and like glass
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:09 AM
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but I have no time to do my best Helen Keller routine
we must have gone to the same body school
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:18 PM
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There is one small dent in the front fender on his car. Its just off the crown of the drivers side fender where the fender meets the hood. Almost impossible to see...unless you're driving. Makes him nuts sometimes. If he had used a guide coat, chances are he would have caught it
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Old 06-28-2013, 02:27 PM
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Feeling it STILL is number one to make something straight, the guide coat is, well......a "guide". It is without a doubt the king for finding pin holes and scratches.

Brian
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:14 PM
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We use so much guide coat at my shop that I stopped paying $7 a can for "guide coat" and now I go to home depot and buy $1 a can "spray paint". It works for me and I use it on everything and have never had a problem. Matter of fact I just painted a Boss 429 today that I used it on.

P.S. feeling is the best way by far
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:18 PM
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# 7233 martin senour spray can guide coat is a good product that i use, sands easy, and you can see good!
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Feeling it STILL is number one to make something straight, the guide coat is, well......a "guide". It is without a doubt the king for finding pin holes and scratches.

Brian
absolutely. We have a Trans Am at the shop and it's white and it's full of small dings. They are so small that I use an old production method in which I determine if it's original paint, and it is, then I use my da to feather ding areas out and like a block it tells you where the lows are at. So I'm doing these dings and since you're knocking a lot out during one filler application you're not gonna re-remind yourself with a quick hand feel before you apply filler to know how thick you need to spread the filler. Hand feel is crucial in those situations cause your filler won't cover all the dings even though guide coat didn't detect it. You have to find them by hand feel.

On compound curves it's more important than a guide coat if you ask me. A perfect example is a 55 chevy fender in the front where it rolls to the top from the outside. I have on multiple occasions and from different techs dealt with areas where I felt someone dug into that area and you'll have flat spots. Guide coat won't tell you a thing about it. Our guru is the raddest but he uses one 11" durablock for literally everything. The last thing he dug into was that area I mentioned and the compound curve on the roof near the sail panel. Guide coat didn't tell me nothing about that either. In a nutshell, hand feeling something is most important for compound curves, hoods, and decklids. The thing that sucks about compound curves is that if you do a good job blocking it out and it gets passed onto someone else you kind of have to be concerned on whether or not they know how to deal with compound curves, cause most guys suck at them, but good thing is compound curves hide a lot. Every time a car with compound curves gets passed to someone else and I know I did a good job on it I'm concerned. It's like that feeling you get when you take a stretch out of the roof but it's still loose cause you'd rather live with it a tad loose than to keep on it and open up a can of worms. So you're just hoping the next guy doesn't block on it too hard. The last car we did I handed them a show winner and the painter sanded the clear and re-cleared but put a burthole on each quarter chasing nibs. I was pretty pissed to see that after all that work and to know it went next door to the head honcho like that. My point is, if you're a painter learn bodywork and that won't be an issue. If you're a body man learn paint and your prep will get better. So that leads me to say from experience that if you give a painter/painter's helper that doesn't do bodywork a car to block he won't use his hand much, and if you allow a body man that doesn't paint to prep you better hope it's not silver.

As far as guide coat goes, get the cheapest flat black enamel can you can get. The only drawback is that it's a tad more tacky than a can of SEM and the can won't last very long but it's worth it. Another method is to get a black primer and thin it/reduce it down and dust some on after you prime. It works REALLY well and doesn't clog and gives you lots of droplets to use. I like the powder for troubled areas where I just guide coated and sanded adjacent panels and don't want spray on it, or trouble areas in general. If you have a quarter wheel crown that's giving you trouble you can keep applying over and over with ease. love that about the powder. Other than that, I love the spray and it's a lot cheaper. If you're doing one car you can get the powder and be left with too much in the end to justify the cost of purchase.

Last edited by tech69; 07-10-2013 at 10:37 PM.
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