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Old 04-12-2008, 12:58 AM
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What do you think?

I am going to pick up a 68 Firebird 400. Guy has the original 400 (blown, not sure why, he doesn't either, need to check once it's home) for the car to go with it, but currently in it is a 307 sbc. Didn't lend much as to what is inside, states that he has the build sheet from the performance shop and dyno print out showing 365 bhp. Sounds a little off to me for a naturally aspirated 307 that's mildly hopped up, but I'll see on Sunday when I do the final malk through and see the papers before I take it home.

My question is, how reliable would you guys say a 307 is? Not many around/used, pretty high bhp out put likely fairly high ft-lbs out put as well on a 2-bolt. Granted, cold blooded, but how would you guys rate the reliability of something like this?? My thought is to sell the 307 and put the finishing touches on my 383 stroker, and put the 6-71 on it. That brings up another point, how would this engine likely handle the weiand?

Thanks for your thoughts and comments in advance.

RIP Doc

Dave
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Old 04-12-2008, 01:00 AM
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forgot to ask...

Also, what would you guys do with the 400? A friend of mine said to build a 377 stroker (opposite of 383- use 350 crank in 400 block and jack up compression with domed pistons and closed chamber heads). Thanks again...

RIP Doc

Dave
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Old 04-12-2008, 01:27 AM
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If I am reading your posts correctly, you have a Pontiac 400 motor, not a Chevy 400. A 350 crank wouldn't fit. Even if it would, I'd never downsize the motor. Cubic inches are king.
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Old 04-12-2008, 01:36 AM
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that was my thoughts

That was what I thought as well and stated to him that they were two different motors and I wasn't sure but didn't believe that it would work, that's why I wanted to make sure I got that in there in the "by the way" second post. What are your thoughts on the 307??
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Old 04-12-2008, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 63CustomCab
That was what I thought as well and stated to him that they were two different motors and I wasn't sure but didn't believe that it would work, that's why I wanted to make sure I got that in there in the "by the way" second post. What are your thoughts on the 307??
Grocery getter.....
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Old 04-12-2008, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 63CustomCab
That was what I thought as well and stated to him that they were two different motors and I wasn't sure but didn't believe that it would work, that's why I wanted to make sure I got that in there in the "by the way" second post. What are your thoughts on the 307??
from what I know of 307's (never actually dealt with one personally) they are nearly as bad for performance potential as 305's...that sounds like a pretty high output number for a 307 to me, not impossible, just spendy...are you positive the guy you bought the car from was mistaken/misleading and the engine is actually a 327 or possibly even a 302? either one of which wouldn't be stretching much to get that number...if it is actually a 307 then I would say pull it out and sell it to some excitable teenager with an 80's camaro/firebird and tell him it puts out 365+ horsepower (twice as much as his little 305 you may add) and use the money from that to help fund finishing you 383 or refurbishing the original 400, either one would be plenty suitable and fun in that '68 Firebird...whichever appeals to you more, thats your choice...
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Old 04-12-2008, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 63CustomCab
I am going to pick up a 68 Firebird 400. Guy has the original 400 (blown, not sure why, he doesn't either, need to check once it's home) for the car to go with it, but currently in it is a 307 sbc. Didn't lend much as to what is inside, states that he has the build sheet from the performance shop and dyno print out showing 365 bhp. Sounds a little off to me for a naturally aspirated 307 that's mildly hopped up, but I'll see on Sunday when I do the final malk through and see the papers before I take it home.

My question is, how reliable would you guys say a 307 is? Not many around/used, pretty high bhp out put likely fairly high ft-lbs out put as well on a 2-bolt. Granted, cold blooded, but how would you guys rate the reliability of something like this?? My thought is to sell the 307 and put the finishing touches on my 383 stroker, and put the 6-71 on it. That brings up another point, how would this engine likely handle the weiand?

Thanks for your thoughts and comments in advance.

RIP Doc

Dave
The 68 400 Firebird would have a 400 inch Pontiac engine, an extension of the 389.

A 307 Chevy was a growth motor from the 283 intended to serve as an entry level V8. It uses a 283 bore and a 327 stroke. Unfortunately and unlike the earlier 283, there isn't enough material in the cylinder to allow going to a 4 inch bore, those being the days of going to thin wall castings.

Size limitations aside the 307 responds to the same treatments as any-other SBC and will accept late model 305 heads and if you want Vortecs.

Bogie
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Old 04-13-2008, 12:50 AM
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Will find out soon now...

I will be picking this car up tomorrow, (or for some of you on later time zones, today) and once I see the build sheet I ought to know, but just to make sure, I'm going to be looking for some kind of an identifier on the paperwork such as a cast number or something of that sorts, that will link the two together. I had thought the bhp figure was way off myself, but didn't bach at it much as I intend to take the engine out anyway.

My initial feeling was to finish the 383 chevy stroker, and put that in the car, but now I am feeling more compelled to put a ponoco back in the car to restore that great ponoco powerhouse tradition to it. I have also read on numerous other threads on here that a pontiac in a pontiac is quite a rare thing anymore, and as I think about it more and look back at all the shows that I've been to, it really is. Now the only decision that I have to make is, which do I use for this build? I like the idea of the 400 back in the 400 Firebird, but the 326 seems a easier build because of the parts available, and yet the 455 has the same appeal, but with that big power temptation really nudging me. So I'll ask again; what do you guys think?? Maybe a few of the Pontiac guys could chime in here and give me your thoughts. I have heard time and again that the 455 has cooling issues, but not sure if this is a common problem with a common fix or not. Pontiacs are a new avenue for me, a little guidance is always more than appriciated from you guys. Thanks again Hotrodders...

RIP Doc

Dave
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Old 04-13-2008, 01:45 AM
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well...I for one like the idea of a pontiac engine in the pontiac car...for some reason all the BOP engines have always appealed to me...of your options I would say look into getting the 400 running as that is already there and just kind of casually keep your eyes open for a 455...sounds like it'll be a fun car! besides the engine how is the rest of the car?
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Old 04-13-2008, 02:18 AM
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Good start

Well, the body is about 75% ready for paint. Look at the pictures and you will see what I mean. My buddies went with me to look at it and one thought it was more like 90%, but my other friend who is a automotive painter and I thought 75% because there is bondo

I personally don't care for the stuff in large quantities, and have decided that the major fill areas, I will cut and weld in new pieces, or if it's major enough, I will replace the panel completely . I have bought one complete panel from goodmark industries before and was very pleased, so that's where I will look again.

The interior is shot, which is fine with me, because it leaves the fate of it to the mind of the creator. I would feel much better about redoing the interior on a car in this shape, than one that already had everything done to it, because I would see it as a waste.

It does need a new water pump pulley as the one on it is bent around the edges from when it was pulled off (still don't know why this was done). It also need the tranny coolant lines; no biggy. The fuse box was removed to put in a newer one with more fuses, but was never finished so all the wires are laying there labeled and disconnected. We wired it all up really quick just so that we could turn it over and start it, so that I knew it ran.

Check out the pics. What do you think? I am getting the car for a steal IMHO ($1800) because the poor guy was foreclosed on and has to be out by tuesday morning. He's moving to an appt and has no place to store it. Feel bad, but at the same time it is an awesome deal.
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Old 04-13-2008, 02:54 AM
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almost forgot...

The 400 hood is not currently on the car b/c he was going to do this car as a sleeper. It is in okay shape (looks like it was left outside in the weather and has some rust but no pitting.). The decals are in the back seat, but up close you can see where the holes were bondo filled. I am most likely going to replace the decals and try to better asess the hood to repair it, or maybe just replace it. Was going to put the 8-71 on the 383, but don't want to cut up the car. I have most of the weiand parts but am now considering selling it a going with a procharger so that there is no cutting. Still a lot of ?? up in the air here. Definitely will have to sit out by the car after it's home and ponder the build before breaking out the tolls and plasma. I have heard good things about procharger, but noting beats that unique weiand sound or look; more pondering required...
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Old 04-13-2008, 05:33 AM
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$1800 is a steal from what can be seen. I would start over on the body though, the 3/4 shots show a lot of work is needed to straighten it out. Unless you want a 50 footer.
It does appear to be a very good candidate to end up with a nice car.
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Old 04-13-2008, 12:41 PM
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looks good man! ESPECIALLY for $1800, I wish deals like that popped up around here...most of the cars like that selling for that low up here are pretty much rust buckets...
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Old 04-14-2008, 12:35 AM
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Deal gone bad, then goodm then great...

I was so excited to get this car, then all went down hill.

When I got to the house with the car, the guy immediately informed me that he cad changed his mind on the price and now wanted $5000 for the vehicle. I was so astonished at his change of heart. He and I had been in contact for a week about the transaction, and I even called him yesterday when I was leaving the bank to let him know that I had the cashier's check in his name for the full amount and that I was picking up a trailer at 8 am to make the hour drive to get it. Then on top of that he decided to piece and part, what was included in the price and what was not.

His first comment was that he would not be willing to let me take the accesories on the engine. At first I was thinking what could he possibly want to take off of it before I rolled it on the trailer. Then he lifted the hood and I saw that the motor was gone completely!!! His comment was that he wanted to keep the entire 307 since it was an engine that he had built for any hotrod and he was only willing to part with the ponocho 400 (which he also stated has a scoured cylinder and possibly fractured at the bottom but could be sleeved). Then he also pointed out that the aluminum radiator, electric fan and after market cool air A/C had been removed. At this point I was holding my anger in, but still realized that this deal was great; I still get a fairly straight body and frame with most of the pieces there. I asked him t o give me a minute while my fiance and I talked it over. As soon as he walked in the door she blurted out "this is a pos, and there is another one in town that's totally original for $5200 obo in the paper"

Just so happened that the neighbor was out in the front yard and heard this. When he came over I thought he was going to get on her case about the comment about the car, but instead informed us to keep looking, that the car had been wrecked in the front severly and that they used a hydraulic jack to push the frame horns back apart and it never ran or handled right again. I looked and sure enough, you could still see the recent stress marks on the frame and that it wasn't even straight yet (still twisted in a counter clockwise direction on both sides. This sealed the deal for me; no purchase.

I looked at the other one she had mentiond when we got back to town and the guy that owned it was older; second owner, his late father the first. He knew nothing about older cars, only drove it once in a while to keep the fluids going on it and wasn't really looking for much cash, just to get rid of it. He negotiated at a price of $4750 and took the $100 I had in cash on me as a deposit until tomorrow, when I go back to the bank to get the check voided and the rest of the cash. It has a poncho 350 and what appears to be a powerglide in it. Still has the orignal rims and seats with only a couple stress tears on the the drivers side. I totally lucked out here. My misfortune turned out to be a fortunate toltal loss avoidance, and then turned into even better fortune with the purchase of the other Firebird. This will truely go down as one of my greatest hotrodding days ever. Can't wait to get you guys the picks of this one, a true beauty! What are the prospects for the 350p?

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Old 04-14-2008, 03:26 AM
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wow that guy was a crook that would have cost you another 5000+ to make it streetable.and a bent frame to boot. i thnk u should go with the 455 if u put one in the other firebird very cool cars those old pontiacs
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