what else in in wax and grease remover besides mineral spirits? - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2006, 11:44 PM
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Hey Brian, in your basic of basics you have a PPG product listed as DX30 in the "fast and weak" category. I don't mean to nitpick but I think that stuff is actually DX320, as far as I know there is no "DX30". The only reason I caught it is because I'm always looking for alternatives to use under varying conditions. The shop I'm at uses DX330 for almost everything, aside from plastic prep where DX103 is used.

Has anyone used DX394? I'd like to try it on plastic parts that have new primer on them, because the DX103 will eat primer that has been sprayed within a week or so, and the DX330 makes static. Sorry if this is a hijack, it's semi-relevant though!

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 12:01 AM
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LOL, you are right. Someone noticed that a long time ago and I forgot to change the original!

Done now, thanks.

Brian
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Old 01-28-2006, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubz
Seems silly to pay $20 for a jug that costs $3 if it's the same stuff.

Also how long would you need to wait before you would notice problems if you didn't use wax and grease remover
It is plainly a matter of being cheap! And then you realize that you CHUMPED yourself! I am not trying to be mean ! BUT! There is a big difference.. I have used wax and grease remover for many years ! no#1 wear good chemical resistent gloves or you are a fool.. No#2 It will eat your liver for lunch if you don't.. No#3 being cheap doesnot mean the job will be OK !! FISH EYES ,FISH EYES ,ROLLEY ,POLLY FISH EYES.. Silica will HOSE you every time .. JUST BUY THE WAX AND GREASE REMOVER.... I know people that refused to listen and they can tell you some good paint horror stories.. All I can say is If you can get away with it you are very lucky
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Old 01-28-2006, 04:39 AM
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Brian.
I don't have no idea what the S&W part number is to have any idea as never see it.

I'm sure they are right but its not the mineral spirits you get off Home Depot shelf. There are different grades. If truth was known, I bet they have a at least another solvent or naphtha grade in there.

Most of the good ones will have 3-5 different solvents in them and some of the solvents will be close to each other like one may be a lite version of another each solvent has their purpose. We just went from 3-4 solvents after breaking these down.

Another common denominator is the good ones will have a little Toluene or Xylene mixed in also.

Last edited by BarryK; 01-28-2006 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:00 AM
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I made the rookie mistake a long time ago using mineral spirits,paint thinner,what ever you want to call it as a pre cleaner after sanding some primer. BIG mistake.
I use G&WR for all my pre cleaner work up to base coat. After that,It's usually KC-20 from HOK. I've had less problems using this on projects than anything. I use the 50/50 solution for my wet sanding in the winter and as a pre cleaner over airbrush work. I was kind of shocked to see mrcleanr6 using spirits over ab work but I see his point as any strong solvent will wipe off very light graphics,so this is why I use the KC-20. Hummm??

A "potency" question.
I was painting some chimney caps this week with a quick dry enamel using Xylene as the reducer. I've never used this before and I'll tell you this,
That stuff F'd me up worse than ANY I've ever used. So, I was wondering IF it's more of a health risk than most?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 08:12 AM
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The counter guy at one of my local PPG suppliers told me the Omni MX-190 cleaner was the same stuff as the DX-330 w&g remover with just a different label.

True or not true? It smells the same.

It is sure a lot cheaper.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 10:38 AM
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this is a pretty old thread and since then i mostly use the kc-20 also but occasionly i will use the mineral spirits but like i said i am aware of what it is and the problems associated with it so i take extra precaution to deal with that. i have never had a problem using it but maybe its that i use the same brand all the time and its better, more pure stuff, i just dont know. i tried paintthinner a long long time ago and there is a big difference between the two. never use that!! again i have to stress i never use this unless its over delicate airbrush work, its just not worth it. other than kc20 i have yet to find a w&g remover delicate enough where i feel safe enough wiping down some of this stuff. anyone that is just doing regular painting or graphics should not even have it in the shop.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 12:30 PM
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Sounds like folks are talking about two different things here.

By all means use the recommended $$$ stuff for surface prep before applying a new paint job. Consider nothing else.

However if you are referring to the bug and tar remover for cleaning road stuff off your grocery getter, just use mineral spirits. That is all I have used for 40 years and works great on removing all but the most stubborn contaminants, is very gentle to the paint job & is cheap. I have tried cans of the $$ stuff and IMHO, it is just mineral spirits! Smells, feels, and works like mineral spirits. Realize I started using MS 25 years B4 they came out with all the the new fancy designer tar removers. Twern't nothin' else out there!
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1
The counter guy at one of my local PPG suppliers told me the Omni MX-190 cleaner was the same stuff as the DX-330 w&g remover with just a different label.

True or not true? It smells the same.

It is sure a lot cheaper.
It is VERY possible it is the exact same product in the can with simply a different label on it!

This will be done by many companies, paint, canned vegitables, etc.

Go in the store and check the batch numbers under the can, you may see the same on both!

Brian
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Old 06-18-2010, 04:58 PM
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Old thread...good question

From the DX330 MSDS

REF HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS PERCENT CAS NUMBER CARCINOGEN*
--- ---------------------------------------- ------- --------------- -----------
01 METHYLCYCLOHEXANE 5 - <10 108-87-2
02 TOLUENE 1 - <5 108-88-3
03 N-HEPTANE 5 - <10 142-82-5
04 NAPHTHA 70- <80 64742-48-9
05 NAPHTHA 5 - <10 64742-89-8

So, mostly Naptha which you can buy for $16 a gallon. You can also buy Toluene. And you can buy N-heptane, if you want to spend $140 a liter.
The Methlycyclone is available from chemical companies, but mixing all this stuff up is silly. You could use the straight naptha plus toluene and get some of the benefit of the PPG cleaner. But we are not chemists and to buy this stuff you will have much more than you need.

I use PRE from Eastwood. Works great and is a little less than the PPG which is now, in 2010, about $50 a gal. including shipping from TCP.

Personally, I think thorough washing and drying completely is fine. How much junk is on there after you just sanded the filler or sprayed the primer?

So costs are a factor and you do have to be thoughtful of them if your boss isn't paying for this stuff. Be frugal where it is smart and spend where it is in the best interest of your project turning out the way you want it .

If you bought everything these companies are trying to sell you , you could drop a grand before you know it just on things you may or may not need.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2010, 05:10 PM
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In what cases would you not want to use a waterborne w&g remover?

It seems like it is a much less hazardous solvent. We have to use so many hazardous solvents in auto painting, it would be nice to eliminate one of them here.
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1

It seems like it is a much less hazardous solvent. We have to use so many hazardous solvents in auto painting, it would be nice to eliminate one of them here.
pssst ... Ajax and hot water , but don't tell the pros they'll do a back over flip..
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2010, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1
In what cases would you not want to use a waterborne w&g remover?

It seems like it is a much less hazardous solvent. We have to use so many hazardous solvents in auto painting, it would be nice to eliminate one of them here.
First of all it creates less static electricity. Second it can be used on all surfaces like plastic and third, it is "enough" in most cases.

Brian
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2010, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brother728
From the DX330 MSDS

REF HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS PERCENT CAS NUMBER CARCINOGEN*
--- ---------------------------------------- ------- --------------- -----------
01 METHYLCYCLOHEXANE 5 - <10 108-87-2
02 TOLUENE 1 - <5 108-88-3
03 N-HEPTANE 5 - <10 142-82-5
04 NAPHTHA 70- <80 64742-48-9
05 NAPHTHA 5 - <10 64742-89-8

So, mostly Naptha which you can buy for $16 a gallon. You can also buy Toluene. And you can buy N-heptane, if you want to spend $140 a liter.
The Methlycyclone is available from chemical companies, but mixing all this stuff up is silly. You could use the straight naptha plus toluene and get some of the benefit of the PPG cleaner. But we are not chemists and to buy this stuff you will have much more than you need.

I use PRE from Eastwood. Works great and is a little less than the PPG which is now, in 2010, about $50 a gal. including shipping from TCP.

Personally, I think thorough washing and drying completely is fine. How much junk is on there after you just sanded the filler or sprayed the primer?

So costs are a factor and you do have to be thoughtful of them if your boss isn't paying for this stuff. Be frugal where it is smart and spend where it is in the best interest of your project turning out the way you want it .

If you bought everything these companies are trying to sell you , you could drop a grand before you know it just on things you may or may not need.

Sorry, but don't see where saving a dollar and a half on a home brewed wax and grease remover to then apply a thousand dollars in paint! Save money on your morning cerial, quit smoking, take your foot of the friggin gas pedal, put down that second beer, take your lunch to work instead of buying out, pass the friggin Starbucks for God's sake, but when I am spending a thousand bucks on paint and clear I am going to use the wax and grease remover the paint company recommends!

Brian
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2010, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Sorry, but don't see where saving a dollar and a half on a home brewed wax and grease remover to then apply a thousand dollars in paint! Save money on your morning cerial, quit smoking, take your foot of the friggin gas pedal, put down that second beer, take your lunch to work instead of buying out, pass the friggin Starbucks for God's sake, but when I am spending a thousand bucks on paint and clear I am going to use the wax and grease remover the paint company recommends!

Brian
I don't think you're replying to my post, because nothing you say has anything to do with what I posted. I never said anything about saving "a dollar and a half" and I never advocated home-brewed wax and grease remover--in fact--I said it is a waste of time and money. The thread was about what's in the stuff. I explained that.

Maybe you've had to much "cerial"--whatever that is. And nobody is telling you what to do with your money. You go ahead and buy whatever they tell you to buy. The point is to get the surface clean without jeopardizing your hard work. Did you get that?
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