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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:51 PM
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Getting technical on wire

This was going back in time but the wire I used was 1 ott for sure over 10 feet of cable, the cranking was heating up smaller wires and over kill makes me happy. Again big battery, big motor and very cold weather starting. I only mentioned my situation as the corrosion ticked me off after all the work hooking up those nice jucy cables and quality cable ends. It did take over a year before I noticed the problem and now always add the petroiun jelly to any connection. If memory serves me for the repair I crimped the new ends,,no flux, no heat except to shrink the heat shrink wrap.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:12 PM
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Thanks for the math Vicrod - I used a calculator and shorter distance so I had a little less, but your example shows the difference more clearly.

It's one of those areas where guys shouldn't try to save a few bucks - they will be sorry in the long run.

I'm also a big fan of running a fat ground cable all the way to a bellhousing bolt.

Last edited by sedanbob; 03-15-2013 at 11:12 PM. Reason: mispelling
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2013, 09:41 AM
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ground

Sorry I forgot to mention that my examples assume that a full sized copper ground wire is used.

vicrod
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:38 AM
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I put a new battery in a car once with new cable ends. Not having any petroleum jelly to put on the post I sprayed them down with penitrating oil, went in to watch TV and when I came out it wouldn't start. The oil wicked in between the post and connectors causing me to loose contact. Had to remove them and clean everything off. Who knew ?
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old guy View Post
Interesting topic for sure. I have used welding cable for remote location of a large dump truck type battery in my pickup truck box(enclosed in a custom containing box with wood lining)for use in very cold winter to start without fail. What I did have happen is corrosion where the battery connectors connect to the cables(seemingly no physical corrosive elements got into the connections). The solution was a baking soda and water cleaning, shorten the cable to remove the affected cable and re connect cable ends, but adding petroliun gelly to the connections before the heat shrink wrap and on the battery posts has eleminated the corrosion..Just my thoughts. Den
Your problem with corrosion is likely caused by the venting of hydrogen gas (and / or hydrogen sulfide) and it being trapped inside a more-or-less airtight container. If you were to attach a tube to the battery vent and run it to the outside of your battery compartment, I think you'd eliminate the problem.


Dorman #924-254, NAPA #600-3574
I'm not positive on this, but I think that the round adapter do-hickey (thats a technical term, LOL) is used to adapt a battery that has an oval-shaped vent near the top of the battery. Venting a lead-acid battery in ANY enclosed space is a very good idea, as that hydrogen gas is extremely explosive! (Remember the Hindenburg?)

Also ... make sure that you are using resin-core solder (NOT acid-core) on any soldered connections. There is also an aerosol "battery protectant" spray that you can use to seal up the post-to-terminal connections.


Permatex #SA9

Last edited by 66GMC; 03-17-2013 at 10:00 AM.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2013, 01:25 PM
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crimp it, seal it

To expand on the cable terminal lug issue.The best method of terminating the cables is a hydraulic crimping tool like a Burndy Y35. There are many other excellent brands. Some types require dies that are matched to the wire terminal lug size and others that are die-less. I prefer the die-less however because they will fit any brand of terminal lug.
Too pricey for a single project but they can be rented or borrowed from an electrical contractor. Maybe your local tool rental tool store can help. Or possibly check out your local electrician training school or Votech. Also available on the internet.
Once the lug is installed apply sealing shrink tube. This will encapsulate the lug and eliminate damage due to corrosion.

vicrod
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2013, 06:50 PM
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I like to terminate cable ends by clamping them in a vice to hold them in a upright position, heat them up with a propane torch, adding solder untill they are 3/4 full, then I push the stripped end of the cable into the molten solder, let it cool slip some heat shrink over the end and it's a very tight neat connection that doesn't corrode very easy
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicrod View Post
To expand on the cable terminal lug issue.The best method of terminating the cables is a hydraulic crimping tool like a Burndy Y35. There are many other excellent brands. Some types require dies that are matched to the wire terminal lug size and others that are die-less. I prefer the die-less however because they will fit any brand of terminal lug.
Too pricey for a single project but they can be rented or borrowed from an electrical contractor. Maybe your local tool rental tool store can help. Or possibly check out your local electrician training school or Votech. Also available on the internet.
Once the lug is installed apply sealing shrink tube. This will encapsulate the lug and eliminate damage due to corrosion.

vicrod
A mechanical crimp is good insurance, IMO.
If a "solder-only" method is used, and the cable gets hot enough to melt insulation and solder ... yikes!!!

Here is a *relatively* inexpensive ($45) manual battery crimping tool.


NAPA P/N WLD 7771635
Also sold elsewhere as Imperial # BS-104

There are also cheaper ($25) "dimpler" type cable crimpers that operate much the same way ... "Whack it with a BFH!"

EZ-RED #B790C

Last edited by 66GMC; 03-17-2013 at 07:05 PM.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2013, 07:47 PM
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what

Let me see -- BFH. OH, OH yea.
That would work. Hit it good.

vicrod
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 66GMC View Post
A mechanical crimp is good insurance, IMO.
If a "solder-only" method is used, and the cable gets hot enough to melt insulation and solder ... yikes!!! ...
If the cable gets that hot, you've got bigger problems to worry about than the battery connection!
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:44 PM
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Yikes...... I agree if a battery cable gets hot enough to melt the solder........ you've got bigger problems! I've been doing this method for some pretty high amp draw items, like air compressors, remote jumper cable connections, winches etc......... I have never had an issue. I don't disagree a mechanical crimp is prob the best method...... but this has been working for me for years
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:23 PM
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Well, I've seen some fairly large (2/0, 3/0) battery cables that have gotten hot enough to melt the insulation, and yes, often there was also a lot of green copper at the joint which was probably causing the high resistance.

I guess I'm talking about neglected agricultural equipment with BIG (i.e. 40MT 24-volt) starters and low ambient temperatures that turn motor oil to molasses ... HUGE amp draws.

I've also seen armatures that have flung the solder out of them ...

I've even seen a 1969 Chevy Impala with white smoke rolling out under the hood at a filling station in Las Vegas while the owner (old man --- prob 90 yrs old) was TRYING to crank it over.

It sounded AWFUL on the first couple of attempts, and then the starter obviously completely seized. He kept leaning on the key ... while myself and another couple of guys started yelling and running towards him. We pushed the car away from the pumps as quickly as we could. SCARY!

1000 amp batteries and 4-ga battery cables are not always a good match ...
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2013, 07:20 PM
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I too have smoked a few cables in my day....... the cables melted the insulation, down to bare copper wire, kinda charred look'in and smelled awful......... but the end didn't melt the solder out of it..... just say'in
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:49 AM
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I always use 2 gauge welding wire. To crimp it I simply lightly small the terminal end in my vice with the cable inside the end. Then i take the biggest Phillips head screwdriver I can find and I strike the ever lasting crap out of it. Reinstall in the vise, give it a slight snug nothing crazy. Then simply either tape the end or shrink the end. Either way is fine. then I use red duck tape and wrap the wire so that there is never any confusion as to which is positive.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EOD Guy View Post
I like to terminate cable ends by clamping them in a vice to hold them in a upright position, heat them up with a propane torch, adding solder untill they are 3/4 full, then I push the stripped end of the cable into the molten solder, let it cool slip some heat shrink over the end and it's a very tight neat connection that doesn't corrode very easy
i do the same as eod guy and always wondered about the critical heat issue of melting the solder.
glad to know that it isn't an issue at all and was thinking that if it got that hot, i'd like the solder to melt out and the connection fail.
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