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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2012, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
you have what looks like a 650 plus horse power engine with the parts I see.It will not be tamed easily.The only thing that would make it a lot easier to drive would be something like big stuff fuel injection,computer controlled crank fired ignition and a really steep first gear or automatic with a nice soft converter. A road race car does not like automatics as much as a stick
The previous owner did say he thinks it is a 600hp engine Which I am not opposed to driving around on the street if I can get it dialed in. The car was all dialed in so I can only assume my issue is plugs and a dirty carb and bad fuel at this point.

I was wondering if I sell this entire motor and tranny combo what I could get for it. Oh and it has a complete dry sump oil set up.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2012, 10:06 PM
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you have what could be 10k or more in that engine? Dart heads start at 1200,oo If they are 227 cc CnCed heads they are closer to 2500,oo.That carb is worth 700(new),crank is a few hundred to a couple thousand
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
you have what could be 10k or more in that engine? Dart heads start at 1200,oo If they are 227 cc CnCed heads they are closer to 2500,oo.That carb is worth 700(new),crank is a few hundred to a couple thousand
the heads say "Pontiac" on them, just the Dart valve covers. He said the engine alone cost him about 15K parts and labor.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Dajerseyrat View Post
He said the engine alone cost him about 15K parts and labor.
Sounds right to me.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2012, 10:43 PM
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theres a lot of labour in a race engine.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2012, 04:12 AM
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Was this car in storage..? fuel gone flat?

Engine must be dead cold to remove the plugs.
Don;t for get the antisieze for the new plugs.
You will need a timing light.
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Old 10-29-2012, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
Was this car in storage..? fuel gone flat?

Engine must be dead cold to remove the plugs.
Don;t for get the antisieze for the new plugs.
You will need a timing light.
Yes it say for about 8 months..I added about a gallon of fuel but didnt check to see if there was old fuel in it. when I started to try and run it, I smelled the race gas that was in there, so it had fuel in it. Im going to clean out all the lines and carb first. I have an adjustable timing light I purchased after the last fiasco. (which by the way turned out I was 1 tooth off on my timing after replacing the dizzy but the carb was still defective and poorly machined.)

This car sat just as he put it away and had about 40 hours of track time on it in the past 3 years. It was set up for road racing and has seen track time at Limerock and Poccono raceways. The previous owner said he had it up to 160. I will post more pictures, it is set up to go..

I spoke with the guy that built the motor and he said it is closer to a 389 cause the block was checked and was extra thick so they went .40 over. However the owner said he thought it was closer to a 421 based on his calculations with the head chambers..I dont know what heads are on there, they say "pontiac" on them and look aluminum..

The dizzy on there is a MSD pro stock one and has no vacuum advance that I see, also the timing should be set correctly for the engine by the previous owner, so Im assuming just setting the base timing over would suffice to get it up and running.





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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2012, 10:06 AM
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If that car sat for 8 months without the valves being backed off,you will likely need new valve springs.Also if its a race only distributor it might have the timing locked out. check that when its running again.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:20 PM
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If that car sat for 8 months without the valves being backed off,you will likely need new valve springs.Also if its a race only distributor it might have the timing locked out. check that when its running again.
Why would I need new valve springs?
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2012, 02:31 PM
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Because a few valves were in the open position for 8 months.those springs will be fatigued by now. 600 lift roller springs dont last long anyways.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:37 PM
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Because a few valves were in the open position for 8 months.those springs will be fatigued by now. 600 lift roller springs dont last long anyways.
Well I dont intend on pulling stuff apart just yet, how would I know if they are bad? The motor has less than 40 hours on it.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:41 PM
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The engine wont make power in the upper RPM range. how far up will depend how bad the springs are. example,my 434 in my car has maybe 7-8k over last 7 years and I replaced my springs once.I have a 6k chip in my car for street use.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:44 PM
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roller lifters should be checked every 200 passes if you drag race or equivalent race time on your track.for light street use the parts lasts a lot longer. the distributor gear needs to be checked yearly.Race engines need babying
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Dajerseyrat View Post
Well I dont intend on pulling stuff apart just yet, how would I know if they are bad? The motor has less than 40 hours on it.
some engines are freshed every 1/4 mile...

40 hours may be nothing... or it may be 38 hours on "borrowed time"- that's the joy of running with unknown parts.
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Old 10-29-2012, 09:40 PM
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Your cam is pretty much what I suspected.
Valve lash: you can chcek this your self. You do not need to adjust it, right now , just check it using a feeler gauge. As long as the lash is aceptable range its good for now.
( you probabily don;t know how to R and R the stud girdles so.....)
As you know I am very particular on correct engine ignition timing on racey engines especially when you want it to idle well and run well on the street.
( SET up for Racing) usually indiates its only set up to run well at WOT without specific attention to race engine idlling etc etc. Lots of improvment there usually.
So replace the plugs , drain all the fuel and replace, and get er fireed back up.
Need to know inital base timing,, Max timng when you rev it up....
Power valves when the diaphram is blown ruptured the power valve leaks fuel ( internal) is always rich
,, fouls plugs oftem caused by a backfire thr the carb ,
Check both PV's diaphram. (stick it in your mouth and suck on it to see if it leaks and operates)
replace if suspect.
Once yu get it up and running ans set up it wouls be nice to take it for a good long hiway run to
"clean it out" ( blow the carbon out) Legal speed hiway driving is good enough.
Get an extra set of new spark plugs and bring them and a plug wrench in case they refoul.
You can run it on 92+ octane pump gas but reduce the timing a bit ( 32 to 34deg max)
with 11:1 cr and full power timing 36-38deg you need 100 octane gas.

It is very likely that this motor does not have enough idle spark timing. ( distributor curve not set up correctly)
Racey engines with 260+deg cams need a ton of timing at idle. as much as 38deg BTDC at idle.
If it don;t have at least 26deg base timing at idle ( more is better) you need to fix that
or it will load up and foul again.

2. because you do not have vac advance the motor wil really like locked out timing
full timing at idle (32 to 34deg for street pump gas) It wil idle much cleaner, not load up and drive much better on teh street. Its a easy set up change on most race distributors.

power valve must stay closed at idle. idle manifold vacuum/power valve vac rating...
power valves must not be leaking/blown diaphram.

That carb body don;t look like a 850. Looks like a 650-700 and the jetting corisponds with that.
Measure the throttle bores diameter and the pri and sec.venturii diameter on the carb body.
You can compare that to the dimentions shown on the holley model list number list (PDF)
This will tell you can mee a lot about what carb body it is and get it dialed in better so it runs clean all the time..
As opposed to "set up for racing".... ( I define that as not set up well at all)

If you have it apart post some picks of the metering blocks. Looks like Percy or...
Probily has removable metering orifices 9 emulsions, idle feed restriction. PVCR etc) idle and hi speed air bleed sizes?
the specs of al this really helps determine the carbs present setup.

which means it may not be right (except for WOT racing) and you can fix that and make it a beauty carb
if you are willing.

When you drive this car do no lug the motor at low rpm. These motrs with this size camashft are not real happy driving at less than 2500rpm. Hi wat cruaising at 3000+rpm is where they like to live. (with 3.08's Id cruise in 3rd gear (4speed)) its not a taxi. It want to run and rev. The usalbe power band of that cam is 4000 to 7000+ rpm keep that in mind.
Avoid needless idleing and low rpm lugging.
Once its set up correctly and cleaned out ( carbon in combustion chambers)) it will run well on the street.


Since the car was sitting replace the fuel filter.. The carb needle seats may need to be replaced too (they go hard and don;t seal) Power valves too,,, don't like to sit. Blow out carb air bleeds with compressed air.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 10-29-2012 at 09:52 PM.
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