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Old 10-28-2008, 07:49 PM
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What happens if GM goes bankrupt?

Not just GM but Chrysler as well? Is the government going to bail them out like they did Chrysler in the 80s? Can the government even afford it? The $600+ billion spending bill passed before the $700 billion bailout included something like $45 billion in low interest loans for the US automakers. Apparently GM and Chrysler are still in merger talks but I'm still not sure what that's going to get them besides a lot of redundancy in car and truck lines.

You can't let one of the worlds largest corporations just dry up, can you? What would that do to the U.S economy? With things the way they are right now, that would be a huge hit to the economy of this country.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...the-brink.aspx
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:55 PM
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I really don't think gm is ever going to go under.But I did stock up on gm stock's....
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:57 PM
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Well if I had to guess, I would say Ford will go before any of them, then Chrysler, then GM. They are all hurting.

Good question though, I am sure our government would assist. There is no way that they would let that happen, or would they???

Jason
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41willys
Good question though, I am sure our government would assist. There is no way that they would let that happen, or would they???
You wouldn't think so. They did bail out Chrysler. But can the government really afford to bail out GM? The government could quite possibly be looking at a $1 trillion deficit for 2009. Then again, can the country as a whole afford a collapse of GM?
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41willys
Well if I had to guess, I would say Ford will go before any of them, then Chrysler, then GM. They are all hurting.

Jason
Ford is financially more stable than GM and Chrysler at this point, you just to look at the price
of the stock to see it, while Ford may be at $2.50 a share, it has lost less of a percentage than
GM, as it has fallen from $14.xx share, and GM stock has been officially pronounced "Junk"...

K
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazin72
You wouldn't think so. They did bail out Chrysler. But can the government really afford to bail out GM? The government could quite possibly be looking at a $1 trillion deficit for 2009. Then again, can the country as a whole afford a collapse of GM?

Bigger question is which "import" company will take them over when they fold. Keep in mind I stated "when they fold", not if. Besides, except for a few high and mighty execs, how many GM jobs (barring final assembly plants) remain in the U.S.? Engines from Mexico; transmissions from China, Japan, or India; GM customer service in god only knows what country. Sad to state this, but, I say let them fall, I'm already going to be paying for Wall Street and cannot afford to bail somebody else out.


In a while, Chet.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazin72
They did bail out Chrysler.
I wouldn't classify that as a "bail out" -- the government provided guarantees, just like a co-signer, so that Chrysler could get loans. Chrysler repaid those loans ahead of schedule. Of course, if they had defaulted, it would have been our tax dollars making good on the loans.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:09 PM
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I stand corrected. Thanks grouch. Either way, can the government afford to offer that protection now?
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:57 PM
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One of the advantages the Federal government has is that if it needs more money, it can print more. That wouldn't do us ordinary taxpayers much good but that hasn't seemed of much concern to those in office for a long time.

If GM or Ford or Daimler-Chrysler went belly up ('titsup' in the UK, IUC), would there be massive firings and a fire sale on manufacturing tools and buildings or would production continue under new ownership?

What would be the cost if taxpayers didn't prop 'em up? What would be the cost if we do?

Either way, I'm sure the upper management will be crying crocodile tears into monogrammed hankies, but won't miss a single martini. It's just 'business'. You grab what you can before the marks wise up and then you move on.

Sorry, Blazin72, I don't have any answers. Just cynicism.
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:55 AM
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I understand the stock issue. What most do not see is the sales/service side. While GM is producing great vehicles, with warranty service down considerably. People are recognizing this and purchasing. I would never say they do not have problems, all vehicles do.

Then look at Ford, I am a service manager at a large Ford dealership, and they are constantly looking for ways to cut the costs. The new F150 so far, people say it is ugly. Diesels have driven Ford into a hole, they can't afford 6.0L repairs much longer, as they keep breaking. The new 6.4L, most are not happy with, and they have their fair share of problems too. No, not all Fords are junk, but people have been driven away from them, because of all the issues. Expeditions, Super Duty's, F150's Our sales are way down, service and repairs are still good. At least where I am.

Overall, our area (Texas), I wish I could post the numbers, but huge dealerships that are use to pushing out 400+ cars and trucks per month, are seeing 50 to 100.

I am not sure what is going on with Chrysler, I know people at some dealerships, and they seem to be doing pretty well.

I think overall, the whole side of going under, being upside down, or what have you, is the actual stock market talking. Dealerships in my area are not closing, sales down overall, but service carrying the load I suppose. Do they base the companies worth, debt, or whatever based on their stock value? Ford, GM and Chrysler are not going anywhere.

Jason
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:09 AM
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I work for a Company that owns GM and Jeep (Chrysler) Dealerships-the Owner was in my Office yesterday and mentioned that the Government is discussing a 10 Billion bailout (Loan?) for GM-I haven't seen this anywhere-has anybody else?

The Chrysler Dealership in our Town is going to close next week (it was bought by the Ford Dealership about two Years ago and they just built a brand new Chrysler Dealership about a Year ago)-sad really-our new Car Sales are way down, but they are starting to sell more SUV's again-Trucks haven't really fallen off as much as I would have thought, though-

I believe that GM will end up with Chrysler-hopefully they will merge them together, cut Overhead and Dealers and come out of this thing in better condition-wishfull thinking I suppose-
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:13 AM
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Here's a Forbes Magazine article in regard to Ford vs a GM bankruptcy.

http://www.forbes.com/manufacturing/..._1028ford.html

In response to Jason's comment on Ford and their diesel mess. It's a disaster - I bought a 2006 F350. I stood in the dealership's lot and looked at several virtually identical trucks except for the engine - the choices were the 5.4. Not a chance. The '01 I was trading had one and had trouble pulling my 7000# camper. Then the 6.0 diesel. It had cojones, but it also had a turbo - and I have had my last of those. It also had injectors - and they are $300+ EACH, and are a problem. It also had head gaskets and head bolts that are problems as well plus many others. Then there was the V10. Yep, a work horse, a few niggling problems in '05, but most didn't spend 25% of its' life being repaired. I bought the V10. It burns more gas then I like, but pulls my camper very nicely. My only problem - Ford's crap brake rotors. Gas yesterday was $2.64, diesel, $4.09 - and the diesel really doesn't do much better then mine and some of the new 6.4's are worse.

I agree the F150 looks like........

Now to Grouch's statement. To the best of my knowledge, Daimler Chrysler no longer exists as it was sold to an equity company in 2007, Cerberus (a three headed dog in Greek mythology). The company, being run by my old GE boss, Bob Nardelli is going down the tubes much like Home Depot did before he was 'pensioned off' and GE Power Systems before he was passed over for CEO. According to most reports I've seen, the only viable part left is Jeep, and they have some models that IMHO really need to 'disappear'. I believe the trucks are doing OK as well, but are even uglier (again IMO) then the Fords.

Dave W
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:23 AM
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As long as I can remember, there has been a saying "As GM goes, so goes our country". Enough said.

But having said that, the only ones to bail out GM is "We, the People", not our Federal Govt with our tax payers dollars. If GM would get off their dead arses and offer products that "We, the people" would buy, then we would bail them out with our purchases. Unfortunately, the Union strangle hold will not allow that to happen, so let them go down the toilet without any of our tax dollars in their grubby hands.

Trees
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:21 AM
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The Owner of our Company was again just in my Office-he is pretty livid-turns out Chrysler is shortening up Flooring Terms on Inventory on '09's-if you have it in Inventory 360 Days they must be paid in full, and '08's they have to pay a 10% curtailment per Month-

I would say that we will see many more Chrysler Dealerships go down quickly, and the GM/Chrysler merger better happen quick as most Dealers cannot live with these types of Terms, which mean they won't be ordering much Inventory, which of course drives Manufacturing.

If you are a Chrysler buyer, now is the time!

Last edited by 35WINDOW; 10-29-2008 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:59 AM
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hey guys

Ever heard of the new world order?Lets play the us doesnt build cars.What does the Us do?Weird huh.Think about it.
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