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Old 08-26-2005, 02:14 PM
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What Kind Of Paint To Use?

In the old days, it was lacquer or enamel. Now there are all kinds of paint out there. Help out an old man.

I am getting ready to paint my Model A. It will be a driver, not show car. I am thinking of painting the hood, cab, and bed a dark hunter green and the fenders, aprons, and running boards black.

I have been using Rustoleum sandable auto primer.

* Do I need to give it several coats of another primer prior to painting so the paint will definitely stick? If yes, what kind of primer should I use?

* What kind of paint should I use that it fast drying, hard (doesn't chip easily), and goes on easily and smoothly without being a professional painter?

Help?

Larry
ditvenet@hotmail.com

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Old 08-26-2005, 02:34 PM
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loiselle, The paint job is only as good as the primer that lays beneath. I'm not familiar with the rustoleum primer but I'm guessing it's an aresol laquer product? If so you might want to rethink this project and start again with quality 2K products or paint over it and cross your fingers. Bob
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Old 08-26-2005, 03:36 PM
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I agree with the comments on the Rustoleum primer. It is not what I would want as a base for a decent paint job. Use a catalyzed urethane primer and top it with either a catalyzed single stage paint or a base coat/clearcoat application. Either will last a very long time.

Vince
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Old 08-26-2005, 03:56 PM
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Paint

It says that it is compatible with most auto lacquers and enamels, however, if using lacquer ... test first for compatibility. No mention of urethane.

Larry
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Old 08-26-2005, 05:26 PM
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I agree. If you are going to spend the money on a quality urethane paint, you don't want the weak link of a lacquer based primer under there. There are less expensive brands of urethane primer out there that are not all that more expensive then using lacquer. I don't think you will have a problem spraying a enamel, urethane, or base/clear system over the lacquer, but wouldn't be my choice. You could always spray a 2k sealer over it if you think you will have compatability problems. If you are set on lacquer primer and a cheap paint job, maybe something like ppg omni single stage acrylic enamel (mae) because the life expectancy isn't as long as the higher lines any way, and the cost of a gallon isn't too bad. I used some single stage omni on a car I still have and it is holding up well after 4 years. I used a urethane primer underneath though. I always thought for some reason it was acrylic enamel I used on that car, but just checked the left over paint can just now and it is actually a single stage urethane that I used. Was about 100 bucks for the gallon of paint with the hardener. Color was white though, which is a cheap pigment, the black should be cheap, and the green shouldn't be too bad either. The paint may chip easier because of the fact you used lacquer primer underneath instead of a product with a hardener.
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Old 08-26-2005, 08:48 PM
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Well short of stripping it down you could try acrylic enamel with a hardener. I would test it over the rustoleum primer before i shot the whole vehicle. Enamel is not as trick as urethane, but you said its a driver ( Model A, driver ) And AE was the standard for a long time.Sprayed over laquer prime i might add. Its cheaper too. AE will actually shine very nicely if you take the time to sand and buff it out. Much better than what was put on it when it was new.
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Old 08-26-2005, 09:11 PM
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You might want to think about PPG's CLV single stage for that year car. Have a peek at this 29 I'm still fixing on...
Got any pics of your project?
Keep the hobby alive~!

http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1337



Last edited by milo; 08-26-2005 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 08-26-2005, 09:43 PM
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Milo, nice work! You've been on this one awhile, any idea how many hours invested? Bob
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Old 08-26-2005, 10:55 PM
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These guys are right. Rustoleum is really hardware store primer and is designed to prep a mailbox or a kids wagons. Its really not automotive use. I can say this as I have sprayed and sanded several hundred cans of the stuff as a kid !

If you want a durable paint and are not worried about it being exactly 100% correct looking like the original lacquer (but really close) I would go with a single stage urethane.

Here is what most people will suggest for a hobbiest like you and me.

FIRST. Pick your paint and supplier. Find what you want the top coat to be. Then go backwards and pick primers.

Your car will basically need something to seal the metal and make the top coats stick. Epoxy is a great start. Its not cheap but good stuff.

On top of that you will be leveling the car with body filler and fill primer. The rustoleum you are using is not a good fill primer. You want something that has high build and will level the car when you block it with sandpaper.

Depending on the fill primer you use, you may or may not have to seal your fill primer before you paint.

As I said, go to your jobber and pick your paint. Then find out what primers it can be applied over. Choose the one that best fits your need and budget. Then work backwards to what it can be applied over.

Its BEST (maybe safest and simplest is a better way to say it) to stick with the same brand all the way through. So dupont primers, paint etc, or PPG all the way.

Its dangerous to mix and match if you dont know what you are doing. I dont do it !

One thing to consider if you want to save some money and mix and match materials (which above I told you not to do) is to buy SPI materials. Barry frequents this forum and is one sharp cookie and can offer guidance on what will go over what.

I would NOT hesitate to remove all that rustoleum and start over. Sorry, but your topcoats are only as good as your primer under it.

If you want to learn a lot, consider buying the DVD or VHS from Kevin at paintucation about painting your car. Its very basic and is designed to teach someone that has never painted their car. You can get it here http://www.paintucation.com

Rich
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Old 08-27-2005, 12:06 PM
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Since I am no expert on paint I don't usually have much to say about it but in the case of rustoleum I have plenty of experience since we use it by the gallon to paint mine equipment. It will paint over oil and grease and since we are just spraying industrial yellow paint thinned mineral spirits it works great, IF you are painting mining equipment that is. I could not imagine using it under automotive paint of ANY type because it does not stick very well, chips easily,sands like crap(as if we EVER sand it ) and anything the other side of mineral spirits based industrial coating simply will not stick to this junk. I once used some to prime a rear axle housing and then top coated with acrylic enamel and the enamel soon just peeled off and IMO you will have a mess on your hands if you don't remove this stuff and re-prime with a good automotive primer. I know they claim it is automotive quality and compatible with automotive paint but don't believe it!
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Old 08-31-2005, 10:36 PM
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'30 Model A Pickup

Here is a pic. I am in the process of fitting body parts prior to painting. It is pretty tame with Ford 9" rear, triangulated 4 bars, coil over shocks in rear with tube shocks front, power disk brakes in the front/drums in rear, 4" dropped tubular axle with hair pins, TH350, 1973 Camaro 350 bored 30 over with hugger headers, street/strip cam, Edelbrock high rise, with Demon 650 carb. I also installed Vintage heat/air. Pretty tame really. I will run full fendered with hood.

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Old 09-01-2005, 06:15 AM
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Kinda like I told you in the E-Mail, at this point the best thing you can do is use epoxy over it as a barrier coat than use whatever paint you want.

I say the best thing because at this point I'm sure you do not want to strip
the car again and most likely what your trying to do the epoxy will work OK for you.
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Old 09-01-2005, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loiselle
[...snip...]
It is pretty tame
[...snip...]
I wouldn't mind having something that "tame". Sweet looking!
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Old 09-06-2005, 12:29 PM
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SPI Paint

I like the SPI paint products and I think the epoxy primer and 2k primer will do just fine. Where do I buy SPI paint products? Thanks.
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Old 09-07-2005, 04:38 PM
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You really might have problems with that primer.I am a cheap guy,but even I stopped using rattle can primer and laquer primer over bare metal and old paint a while ago.If the car has a lot of bare metal,you need to go over the bare metal with a self etching primer.These primers are expensive,and I have had good result by putting one moderate coat of good self etching on the car,{just enough that you cant see though it anymore}then going over it with a few coats of laquer primer,then letting the whole mess dry for a week or so before blocking it out and shooting Chromabase base over it.The only reason why I let the primer sit before blocking is to let it shrink into any feathered edges.The only real problem i have with laquer primer is the bleed through,but if you only lay on 2 or 3 coats and dont try and fill dents with it,it wont hurt the finished paint.Laquer is Laquer,and over time it will keep shrinking,and eventually crack,regardless of if you have other types of paint of top of it.If you keep the layers thin enough there isnt a problem though.I simply use cheap primer as a way to get a little more buildup out of the expensive primer.I lf I lay the good primer over bodywork that I know doesnt have a lot of scratches,I know that bleed thoguh wont be a problem.When all is said and done,the laquer primer is almost see though after the block sanding.That rattle can stuff is kinda scary.My biggest concern is that with paint cost being what they are,you stand to waste a lot of money in paint materials just to save a few bucks on primer.Good luck either way.
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