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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countilaw
You can buy that most expensive clear on the market. You can have it special formulated, blended and mixed, and it won't do you any good if you don't know how to paint.

The statement that you are going to sand it between every coat tells me that you don't have much experience with painting. ( you can lay down enough clear in one coat to sand it, if you try you will have solvent pop!)

The statement that you would rather learn from other's mistakes, tells me you don't have much experience with painting. (Every painter has learned by his own mistakes, not mistakes of others)

The statement that you want to know which is the best for air drying, tells me that you don't have much experience with painting. (Clear coat doesn't dry by air, it cures by chemical reaction.)

Frank Cox
Cox Custom Cars
Sorry for the misunderstanding when i mentioned sanding between coats i meant 2 coats of clear sand , and one more to top it off. Yeah i am newbie =/ i wish i could absorb everybody skillz in one week but i know thats an impossible task.

The only reason why i want a clear coat that could be air dried is becuase i dont think ill get a paint booth with a 140 degree heater omg i wish. im pretty new to this world

With time i will pick up the paint terminology

If i cant perfect my projects at least it will look perfect in somebodys eyes that doesnt know anything at all



btw you seem like somebody that knows alot about paint, if u dont mind i would love your recommendation on a clear coat. i see myself headed to RM unless you know something better, or maybe PPG's 2002 polyurethane clear?

thanks in advance

mike

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2010, 02:46 AM
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Dupont!

Sands and buffs like butter. Be sure to tac after each coat of base color and allow the recommended wait time between each coat of clear! !!!!
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2010, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countilaw


The statement that you want to know which is the best for air drying, tells me that you don't have much experience with painting.
Frank Cox
Cox Custom Cars
This is wrong. He got the "air dry" from me. Air dry is a term for clear that doesn't HAVE to be baked. DuPont g2-4500 and 4700 are HYPER CURE HIGH BAKE/HYPER BAKE and AIR DRY. Some clears HAVE to be baked to cure properly. Oh yeah, almost all tech sheets from ALL clear manufacturers put times for force dry(baking) and air dry

Last edited by Underground; 06-05-2010 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:38 AM
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unless you like buffing concrete stay away from dupont and ppg. production clears are for 2 coats to match oem and deliver. forget transtar and the like. for a new painter i dont think you will find a more user friendly clear than the spi universal. gloss and depth is achieved by the clarity of the finish .
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
unless you like buffing concrete stay away from dupont and ppg. production clears are for 2 coats to match oem and deliver. forget transtar and the like. for a new painter i dont think you will find a more user friendly clear than the spi universal. gloss and depth is achieved by the clarity of the finish .
*gloss and depth*

WOW its 1:1

what are you thoughts in Euro Clear 2020
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:25 AM
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2010, 01:17 PM
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Sounds like you are getting a lot of advise. Let me throw a couple more comments at you. You commented about the "newest" or "latest".

I always stay away from the new products. Several times in my career I have used a new product, only to find out that it had problems that did not show up, until a large number of people started using it. I had to eat the cost of the repairs! The paint store may give you more paint, but they don't pay your labor to do it all over again! }:-(

Different shop conditions and the things that can vary between users would probably not happen in the lab, as it's being developed, but when it's relased there may be unforseen problems that show up. The company would then reformulate to deal with the exposed problems. I like for a product to be out for a couple years, before I use it. Lets just say I don't like being used as a guinee pig!

In the end, the best result comes when you learn how to make a solid product work consistantly well. Too many young painters think that if you have "state-of-the-art" equipment, and the "latest" materials, you will produce world class work. The truth is that they do help, but an experienced painter, who is familiar with his equipment and products, can take the "old stuff" and often make it look far better! This will be you someday.

As you go along, you will make mistakes, but don't give up or be discouraged. It is part of the learning curve you go through if you want to be a skilled painter.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2010, 01:38 PM
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Any paint that uses an activator, cures. It doesn't not air dry like enamels or lacquers did. The baking only speeds up the curing process.

In a production shop, one will bake the clear just to get the car out of the shop. A car/truck sitting, is taking up space, if it's taking up space it's costing money. Bake it, let it cool, and roll it out for delivery. The baking does nothing but speed the curing time.

I use Xtreme Clear manufactured by 5 Star. The 8155 is a mix 4:1 and can be shot right out of the can. It's a medium solids, so it great for production work. Plus, it's not as expensive as Dupont, PPG, R-M, or Martin-Senor.

For special projects I use Ultra Clear by Kirker. It's a high solids, mixes 4:1, and when reduced by 10 to 20 % if flows out like glass. I hate cutting and buffing, and if I can keep the dirt nibs out I would rather shoot and let it flow out with no buffing envolved.

I have used SPI, Dupont, Nason, R-M, PPG, Sherwin Williams, and Martin Senor. They are all good when applied as per the instructions. But I select a product and stick with it. That way I know what to expect and how to handle it. I know how to prevent problems by knowing the product I'm using.

I don't care how expensive a spray gun is, it is only as good as the hand pulling the trigger. I don't care how expensive the product is, it's only as good as the prep.

Frank Cox
Cox Custom Cars
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countilaw
In a production shop, one will bake the clear just to get the car out of the shop. A car/truck sitting, is taking up space, if it's taking up space it's costing money. Bake it, let it cool, and roll it out for delivery. Frank Cox
Cox Custom Cars
Thats right, and thats WHY they formulate some clears specifically as booth clears. Look it up. Will they dry out of a booth, yes, but they don't look the same(not as glossy) and from what I was told from a supplier is they wont be as durable if you DONT bake them. And KIRKER and 5 STAR are LOWER line materials. You wont see very many good shops use these. And almost NO production bodyshops use them. Definitely no top shops.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2010, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonJay
Sounds like you are getting a lot of advise. Let me throw a couple more comments at you. You commented about the "newest" or "latest".

I always stay away from the new products. Several times in my career I have used a new product, only to find out that it had problems that did not show up, until a large number of people started using it. I had to eat the cost of the repairs! The paint store may give you more paint, but they don't pay your labor to do it all over again! }:-(

Different shop conditions and the things that can vary between users would probably not happen in the lab, as it's being developed, but when it's relased there may be unforseen problems that show up. The company would then reformulate to deal with the exposed problems. I like for a product to be out for a couple years, before I use it. Lets just say I don't like being used as a guinee pig!

In the end, the best result comes when you learn how to make a solid product work consistantly well. Too many young painters think that if you have "state-of-the-art" equipment, and the "latest" materials, you will produce world class work. The truth is that they do help, but an experienced painter, who is familiar with his equipment and products, can take the "old stuff" and often make it look far better! This will be you someday.

As you go along, you will make mistakes, but don't give up or be discouraged. It is part of the learning curve you go through if you want to be a skilled painter.
Nicely said Jay,

i'm so glad i was born in the computer era, with a click of a button i can find a load of information. i browsed through your photo album , WOW man! talk about skillz, a couple of days ago i was browsing kustomshop.com and found stencil templates!!!!!! for $5 i can AIR BRUSH skullz hahahaha


i to someday would like to put up a photo album

Last edited by jeetkunedoground; 06-05-2010 at 10:13 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2010, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countilaw
Any paint that uses an activator, cures. It doesn't not air dry like enamels or lacquers did. The baking only speeds up the curing process.

In a production shop, one will bake the clear just to get the car out of the shop. A car/truck sitting, is taking up space, if it's taking up space it's costing money. Bake it, let it cool, and roll it out for delivery. The baking does nothing but speed the curing time.

I use Xtreme Clear manufactured by 5 Star. The 8155 is a mix 4:1 and can be shot right out of the can. It's a medium solids, so it great for production work. Plus, it's not as expensive as Dupont, PPG, R-M, or Martin-Senor.

For special projects I use Ultra Clear by Kirker. It's a high solids, mixes 4:1, and when reduced by 10 to 20 % if flows out like glass. I hate cutting and buffing, and if I can keep the dirt nibs out I would rather shoot and let it flow out with no buffing envolved.

I have used SPI, Dupont, Nason, R-M, PPG, Sherwin Williams, and Martin Senor. They are all good when applied as per the instructions. But I select a product and stick with it. That way I know what to expect and how to handle it. I know how to prevent problems by knowing the product I'm using.

I don't care how expensive a spray gun is, it is only as good as the hand pulling the trigger. I don't care how expensive the product is, it's only as good as the prep.

Frank Cox
Cox Custom Cars
im goign to read up on that Xtreme and kirker but i heard alot about kirker , was that the kirker gloss? I own a Stang and its nothing close to that SUPER GLOSS
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2010, 10:51 AM
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That car was painted with Kirker Ultra. It's a very good clear coat.

This is a Dodge Aftermarket hood that I used Xtreme Clear by 5 star clear on. This picture was taken in the paint booth after it cured and before any buffing or polishing.



This is a 2010 Dodge Challenger that I painted the lazor stripes and graphics on as well as blacking out the hood and spoiler. The clear used on the hood is PPG Flex Coat. It cures to a flat finish. These were clear coated over using Xtreme Clear also. The clear coat was sanded to make the surface smooth so that the graphics and stripes were buried under the clear.







Frank Cox
Cox Custom Cars
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2010, 02:44 AM
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countilaw or anybody

anybody know if they could of used:
PPG Flex Coat below
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2010, 07:21 AM
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I has the same look. Just about all paint manufacturers have the same thing. Any single stage or clear coat can have flattener added and look like that. That job has to be perfect, because what you spray is what you get. Obviously you can't polish dirt out.
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Old 06-07-2010, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underground
I has the same look. Just about all paint manufacturers have the same thing. Any single stage or clear coat can have flattener added and look like that. That job has to be perfect, because what you spray is what you get. Obviously you can't polish dirt out.
Damm!

how in hell did he get it on so perfect at the first shot haha 75% coverage?
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