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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2013, 09:42 PM
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Kelly, not a word of a lie...I didn't do the job but, I saw the piece taken out of the car. It was a late 70's early 80's Toyota in for a door skin. The tech pulled the inner door panel and the back of the existing door skin said "Pepsi"...The owner claimed he had the car from new and it never had been hit. I can't see Toyota using recycled Pepsi signs, (Coke Okay...not Pepsi...LOL) but I saw the back of the door skin.

Your so right Kelly, without there being anything solid for the glass to stick to, eventually it will fall off. This car had a life expectancy of 6 months tops...we already had another project in the works when he got his license. Legally, if it's not structural there isn't a problem, it's no different than having a molded scoop made for the hood and using body panel adhesive to hold it on...some people might say that that's custom...but, shape a door skin out of the same material and that's wrong or illegal...no...as long as it's done for the right reasons, all involved know and again, the structural integrity of the vehicle has not been effected...what's the difference. It's the moral issue to do this to an unsuspecting customer and then this would be just wrong, morally wrong.

I still sleep well at night...that was one strong little 79 Lemans...one of those cars that should have died when the truck clipped it...all I can say is that it kept on going and did teach my son to be a better driver.

Oh, I love the brake story on that car...it might be getting old to some...but it is one of my favorites.

Ray

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2013, 10:13 PM
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Ray the illegal part comes into play when the sign is stolen to be used as a patch. Apparently the DMV doesn't care if you needed a door skin and that stop sign was just down the street lol.

Kelly
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:19 PM
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Your right again Kelly...I always thought those stop and maximum speed signs where suggestions more than hard and fast rules...LOL...I guess I can understand their frustration when, I know would, be offended when my my suggestions are ignored...LOL

Ray
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Old 08-24-2013, 02:43 PM
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A few years back I had to haul an old classic car for a friend of mine to one of his friends place that had quite a collection of cars. While I was unloading this car another fellow came out and started talking about this guys collection. Appartently he had a couple of guys working on his wifes 70 VW bug conv. right there on the property in a decent size private shop. Well he asked me how much paint do you think think these guys used on this bug conv. (no roof) and it was single stage green/teal metallic. I said to him mabey 3 quarts or so. He started laughing and said do you know how much they actually used " I said I don't know, how much" to my shock he said 4 GALLONS. I said 4 gallons, how can that be? Then I walked in there to see it, and could not beleive how bad it was, the mottling was so bad that it looked like marble. Dry spray everywhere, and they had sprayed the rear floor seat area, that had looked like they hauled loam in it and did not bother to clean it out before spraying right over all the dirt. From what I could see that paint had to be almost 1/8 inch thick in some spots, from so many attempts at re spraying. Don't know what ever happened with that car or if it was ever straightened out.
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Old 08-24-2013, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mr4speed View Post
A few years back I had to haul an old classic car for a friend of mine to one of his friends place that had quite a collection of cars. While I was unloading this car another fellow came out and started talking about this guys collection. Appartently he had a couple of guys working on his wifes 70 VW bug conv. right there on the property in a decent size private shop. Well he asked me how much paint do you think think these guys used on this bug conv. (no roof) and it was single stage green/teal metallic. I said to him mabey 3 quarts or so. He started laughing and said do you know how much they actually used " I said I don't know, how much" to my shock he said 4 GALLONS. I said 4 gallons, how can that be? Then I walked in there to see it, and could not beleive how bad it was, the mottling was so bad that it looked like marble. Dry spray everywhere, and they had sprayed the rear floor seat area, that had looked like they hauled loam in it and did not bother to clean it out before spraying right over all the dirt. From what I could see that paint had to be almost 1/8 inch thick in some spots, from so many attempts at re spraying. Don't know what ever happened with that car or if it was ever straightened out.
LOL...Dennis...I know, I have a story for everything, (that's why I started this thread...I'm getting sick of mine and wanted to hear others...LOL), you just reminded me of another one, very similar to yours.

I was doing my usual Paint Rep job and this customer walked into the store and ordered a gallon of green base coat. I thought to my self, a gallon, must be a big job and didn't give it much more thought. A couple of weeks or so go by and at 7:30 in the morning, this same customer is waiting in the parking lot for us to open. I remembered him just from the shear amount of base coat he bought so I invited him in to see if I could help him out. He told me he wanted another gallon of this green base coat. I looked at him kind of strange and asked what he was painting that would take 2 gallons of base. He told me that this was the 3rd gallon, he had picked up the 2nd a few days earlier and he was painting a Nova.

My jaw hit the floor and I told him to stop...I would go to his shop and see what was happening. On the way to his house (he was painting the car in his garage) he told me that he had an apprentice doing the body work and paint and he thought it was kind of strange that the car would need that much paint.

When I got to his garage, the floor was green, the walls where green, the roof was green...he showed me the inside of his house where he had garage access, it was green. The only thing that was green on the car was the underneath of the deck lid. How everything else got painted and not the car, I don't know, I can't figure that out to this day. We mixed up another 2 1/2 quarts and I painted the car. While I was painting the car, he said "the compressor wasn't running nearly as often when I painted compared to the last guy." I can see running a paint gun wide open, with full pressure but, 2 gallons for the inside of a deck lid...like I said, I still can't figure it out...LOL

Ray
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2013, 11:06 PM
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well..i can't wait any longer...gotta post here..lol! Anyway, my clear for sealer process is one of the lesser evils i have performed.
Once, while working at another shop, we had a 69 camaro come in. Car needed a little spot work here and there and one "small" rust area fixed on the uni-body frame rail just behind the axle on the drivers side. We did the spot blends and then attacked the rust below. I crawled under and started tapping with a hammer just to get an idea how much rust we had. After a few seconds, it was apparent that the frame rail was non-existent from the rear bumper to the upper part of the bend over the axle. I asked the shop owner what he wanted to do, so he called the owner of the car. The owner said, "i already have a buyer, i don't care if you build it with cardboard and bondo...just get it done". So, per the owners request there is now a 69 camaro running around with cardboard and bondo for a frame rail. After the undercoating you couldn;t tell it wasn't factory. On the way home, i promised myself that i would never do that again! Somebody, somewhere will haul their family in that death trap! I'd rather lose the job than worry about stuff like that.
Then on another occasion at the same shop, we had a customer with a 61' impala rag top that was ruff!! We cut up 9 different cars to make that one solid (not saying that any wrong was done here...we used solid metal to replace rusty metal and it was done right...just thought someone might get a kick from the thought of 10 bads ones making one good one) That car eventually made the cover of lowrider magazine and he turned down a $90,000 offer.
And finally, here at my shed, i painted a car lot special and ran the clear awful bad. (i mean realllllly bad) I was already aggravated at the thought of not really making any money on the job and had hoped for a one shot deal. You know 'time is money", and all that. So, as i stared at the runs thinking it would be atleast a day or two before i could sand and repaint...i had the genus idea the flow the runs out with thinner! Off to the thinner can we go! A few coats later and we're back to square one. I rebased and recleared the truck and would you believe it turned out awesome. God must'a knew i'd throw a match to the shop if it didn't come out good the second time! There had to be divine intervention...no other way it could have worked! Anyway, thanks for the thread...i been roll'n in the floor. Ya'll have a great night!
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2013, 12:17 AM
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I gotta say, every time one of you guys post...it brings back memories...some good, some...memories. About 10 years ago, the fellow I was working with on another project had a wife...now, that in in itself isn't strange, unless you met the guy...this guy was one of those one dimensional brains...you know, really excel at one thing and just sucked at virtually everything else. Great guy, just dumb when it came to things like medication. He suffered from hemrrhoids and the doctor perscribed suppositories...after taking them, he was upset and exclaimed to me 'These damn things don't work, as far as I'm concerned they can shove them up their butt"...honestly, he was swallowing them...he also lacked many social skills and that's why I felt that I needed to point out that he had a Wife.

On a fine Friday afternoon I got a phone call from his wife asking me if I would help her buy a car as her husband, well, he wasn't good at cars either. I agreed and asked her what kind of car she was looking for, she said she would like a newer model of a Camaro or Firebird...Now I was really in. I looked through local newspapers, online and called several reputable car lots and found 5 vehicles that fit her price range and was ready to go test driving. I called her and told her that we had 5 different possibilities and when would it be convenient to go shopping. She informed me that her and my buddy, her husband had already bought a car. I was disappointed but figured alright.

Two weeks to the day I got another phone call from my buddy's wife and asked if I could adjust the door...it was hard to close. Bells went off, Red flags went up but, I told her I would look at the car. I got to see the car for the first time, a 5 year old White 1998 Camaro LT1. I looked at the door and it did seem a little hard to close so I thought it may have been in an accident at one time or another and I would just gently lift up on the door so that i could get better alignment with the striker. The entire door support and A pillar moved. The car was rusted to the point that the doors where ready to fall off.

I took the car to the shop and out it on the hoist. The floor, the sub-frame, the rear frame rails where rusted so bad when I tapped on them with a ball peen hammer, it put holes in the floor. I asked where she bought the car and she mentioned the used car dealers name. We immediately went down for a visit. The owner was rude and said that a little surface rust was nothing to worry about and to just drive the car. I told him that when I checked the frame rails and the floor with a ball peen hammer, it put holes in the floor and it wasn't safe. He went ballistic on me, telling me that I had a lot of nerve, damaging a perfectly good car and coming back in for warranty...and to get out. I very politely said no, I was staying until we got satisfaction. He then told me that the car had been certified and passed the safety with flying colors...(this was in a Province with government insurance and all used vehicles needed to pass a safety test before they could be registered at the DMV. I asked which shop certified the car and I needed to see the certification. He then told me that he didn't have it because he gave it to the DMV to get it registered and couldn't remember which particular shop they had used for this car.

Now it was time to leave and head to the DMV, we got the information, set up an appointment with the Used Car Dealer, the shop that certified the car and to make sure that everything would be on the up and up, I asked for an insurance adjuster to be present as well.

The day came, we all met at the shop that did the certification, the car was put on the hoist and looked at by all parties involved. I couldn't believe my ears when the adjuster spoke up and said, "the car does have some rust but nothing structural, car looks good to me"...I lost it, I asked the adjuster if they had medical benefits at his place of employment because if they did, he wasn't getting full value for the optical plan. He started getting a tad rude and said "Ray, Ray, how long have you been in the business, I've been in it for over 35 years and I know that when a car starts to rust one of the most common areas is the front bumper because of rock chips", he struggled to find a rock chip to show me that there wasn't any rust. I looked at him and said, "I haven't been in the business nearly as long as you have but, when I went to school to get my ticket, I was taught that plastic didn't rust, but if we open the door, there is rust." We where told that there wasn't anything that could be done and it was a buyer beware situation.

Long story short, we took the Government Insurance Company, the Used Car Dealer and the shop that did the safety to court, provided an estimate from a leading body shop that said the car was not fit to be on the road and even sudden braking or acceleration could twist or break the frame, the impact zones on the vehicle would not withstand the slightest collision (The shop stopped estimating at $10,000 in repairs) and got the full purchase price of the car back plus damages. The adjuster got fired for being in cahoots with the dealership and the shop that did the inspection on the car and we went car shopping and got a real one. For a 5 year old car, this was the worst rust I've ever seen.

It just goes to show, be careful, in this case they where importing cars from the Eastern part of the Country where the roads get a steady diet of salt all Winter long...In the West we call them Easter Bunnies...LOL

Ray
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2013, 06:48 PM
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Preachermans post brings up a good point on fixing rusted structural points the "correct" way as I had a bad experience with this at a dragstrip. Several years back I had wanted to pick up a cheap first gen camaro to take to the strip and have some fun with, as I had been out of it for a while. So I found a 68 reasonably priced and I had a whole drivetrain ready to go in it anyway. Car seemed pretty solid with floor pans installed at some point, so I set the car up with a mild 300 horse 350 and went racing. First few weekends out things went well, it was a low 13 second car, not super fast, but fun. Then one weekend I went up to the track with another friend who had a much faster car, it was a friday night and I was having trouble keeping the car straight down the track. It had never done this before and was getting a little worse as the night went on. I had asked my friend if he was having problems with the track being a little slick, but he was'nt as this is what I had figured the problem was. I checked tires, pressure, everything seemed o.k. and tight. The next day I went back started making passes and it was still doing the same thing. Then I made a run and shifting into 4 th gear the car went really squirrly at about 85 mph, had to fight to keep from losing it and was pretty scary. At the end of the track one of the crew guys told me to report directly to the tech shack as they wanted to look the car over. Well after that pass the car was not going back out on the track no matter what. I go back to the shack and get out of the car to find the driver side tire almost rubbing the front of the rear quarter, the whole rear end shifted in the car. I then had noticed the bottom of the rear seat did not look right, seemed to high on the driver side. I get in the car take out the rear seat and saw something unbeleivable. The floor pan was never welded in this car it had only been fiber glassed in place, the entire front spring shackle mount was sticking up through the floor pan about 10 inches, it had ripped right through the pan taking the whole glassed mess along with it. Needless to say it was never driven again and I ended up parting it all out. Looking under this car when I was working on it, it really did look to be o.k. as it was a real good hack job that proved to be very dangerous.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:51 PM
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man..i'm glad you didn't get hurt bad with a mess like that! See, thats what i'm saying...when your talking structure and safety theres no room to cut corners! So many carlot guys and even resto guys as well will do whatever it takes to hide to issue long enough to sell the car. Its pitiful...all i know is that i'm not doing it anymore!
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:02 PM
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There out there and it happens even if your insurance is paying. Even as recent as several years ago when I was making my regular visit to a shop. I saw a technician...well, I saw a guy doing a repair while the car was on a frame machine that I couldn't believe it. The frame was so badly damaged the sub frame should have been replaced. It was a relatively new vehicle at the time and I felt insurance should have replaced the frame. I went to the owner and asked why the frame wasn't being replaced. He told me that the insurance had allowed for it and it should be but his frame guy felt he could straighten it.

There was filler on that frame hiding a multitude of sins. After the car was done, the door gaps where pathetic, even the windshield trim wouldn't go back on properly, yet the customer accepted the vehicle and it's out there on the streets, dog tracking and sharing the same road as your car and mine. Now, did the shop bill the insurance company for a new sub frame? I don't know, the insurance company doesn't check every receipt or follow up with inspections on every repair...on this one they should have. I wouldn't have accepted that repair under any circumstance.

Ray
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:28 PM
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Dad used to fix alot of total loss cars for a dealer out here and i can say with confidence and first hand experience.."90% of the time, if it needs pulling, it needs replacing". Replacing the bent frame or inner structure is almost always quicker. Always safer for the buyer and always a better repair. Most of the time when a car is pulled back into shape and gets new sheet metal, it will look great for a while...then you see it in 5 years and all the gaps are off, it drives crooked and nothing shuts right...i personally think that the metal looses it strength when straightened. Think about it...the strength of the original, non-compromised metal is reduced on impact...then reduced again when straightened. I would much rather just replace it with new parts and you know your at least as good as factory.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:43 PM
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Dad used to fix alot of total loss cars for a dealer out here and i can say with confidence and first hand experience.."90% of the time, if it needs pulling, it needs replacing". Replacing the bent frame or inner structure is almost always quicker. Always safer for the buyer and always a better repair. Most of the time when a car is pulled back into shape and gets new sheet metal, it will look great for a while...then you see it in 5 years and all the gaps are off, it drives crooked and nothing shuts right...i personally think that the metal looses it strength when straightened. Think about it...the strength of the original, non-compromised metal is reduced on impact...then reduced again when straightened. I would much rather just replace it with new parts and you know your at least as good as factory.

Speaking of pulling, remember the one we pulled in two , oooppps

And my favorite quote to this day "whatever you do, don't loosen a bolt on this car. I twill fly apart like a broke banjo string." hahaha

Kelly
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:52 PM
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Dad used to fix alot of total loss cars for a dealer out here and i can say with confidence and first hand experience.."90% of the time, if it needs pulling, it needs replacing". Replacing the bent frame or inner structure is almost always quicker. Always safer for the buyer and always a better repair. Most of the time when a car is pulled back into shape and gets new sheet metal, it will look great for a while...then you see it in 5 years and all the gaps are off, it drives crooked and nothing shuts right...i personally think that the metal looses it strength when straightened. Think about it...the strength of the original, non-compromised metal is reduced on impact...then reduced again when straightened. I would much rather just replace it with new parts and you know your at least as good as factory.
So true, especially when the insurance company has allotted time and money for a new one. With the type of frames on cars these days with crumple zones for impact reduction and all...replace.

Ray
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:09 PM
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So true, especially when the insurance company has allotted time and money for a new one. With the type of frames on cars these days with crumple zones for impact reduction and all...replace.

Ray

Ray. you would cringe if you only knew the whole story on some of those jobs. The dealer would do some of the craziest things to try and save a penny. He would buy a fender that was damaged at the back and one damaged at the front and cut them in half, then weld the good ends together to make one good fender . Oh I could go on for days about the things he would do or want done.

Kelly
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:19 PM
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I've seen a few things that would make most people cringe. I saw a, again I hate calling them Body men or technicians, how I saw a guy...repair a hole in a quarter panel (he hole got there by a 2 X 4 coming off of a truck and went through the quarter) with an 8 inch stick it with short strand fiberglass in the middle of it and he slapped it on the quarter, let it set up, then he pulled the stick it off, the fiberglass was shaped to the quarter and he leveled it off with an air board, primed it and it went to paint. This was 2 year old car.

There are horror stories out there.

Ray
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