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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2013, 08:41 PM
put up or shut up
 

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one of the dumbest things you can do is make a mistake and then have an attitude once it's brought to your attention. I've done it and had it done to me and it's irritating. Take a prepper for an example...drives our hard work into the ground. You go tell the manager and the stupid manager goes and tells him I didn't like his work. So then the prepper has an attitude but in reality, I'm spending a good amount of time to bring a quality product to the table and it's SOMEONE'S duty to ensure that things are in order and are being done right, so it makes sense to go to the manager so it doesn't happen again. So this guy's leaving the old man's 80 grit scratches on a SILVER hood, using a DA on body lines and putting random points/sharp edges on them, and just stuff my old manager at Maaco would have had a fit over. So instead of having the attitude of "what can I do to make my work better", he has an attitude. THAT, is what you should NOT do when working on a car. This goes for hobbyists as well. People need to know when to shut up and listen.

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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2013, 08:52 PM
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Henry, the old adage of learning more when your is mouth is shut and and your listening, compared to when you open it to defend and or complain is so true...Don't you guys have a one tech that is in charge of quality control, training or mentoring the new guy...that sure would save you the aggravation of having to discuss this unnecessary stuff with your boss. Any shop I worked at that person was in place and it sure saved a lot of grief, the same grief you seem to be going through way to often...If you don't have it, maybe try and get one, if you do have it, the person that's doing it needs more power or autonomy.

It is real frustrating...I understand that.

Ray
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2013, 09:50 PM
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On the subject of "what not to do" I am considering buying an airbrush........stay tuned, I am sure there will be some good stories come from this adventure LOL


Kelly
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2013, 09:58 PM
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On the subject of "what not to do" I am considering buying an airbrush........stay tuned, I am sure there will be some good stories come from this adventure LOLKelly
Hey Kelly...that's great, if you need pointers or information, let me know...happy to help if I can...might be able to give you a few a pointers.

Ray
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:09 PM
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Hey Kelly...that's great, if you need pointers or information, let me know...happy to help if I can...might be able to give you a few a pointers.

Ray

Ray, I will take any advice you care to offer. I have always wanted to learn how to effectively use an airbrush, but never really invested any time or money into it. I am still doing a lot of reading and research on the subject. I am sure it (like most anything automotive) will take several years to become relatively proficient, so I am in no real hurry. I think based on what I have read, I want a 0.3mm tip. From what I have read it seems to be the most versatile for a beginner. Also I'm still trying to figure out which one to buy, like other paint guns there are millions on the market priced from $20 up to "Holy crap". I would like to stay in the $125ish or less range until I get a little ability anyway. I am mainly looking for something to play with for now and maybe do a little shadowing and that type of stuff to get a feel for things.

Kelly
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2013, 10:34 PM
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Felt pen is the most amazing ink ever! My God I don't remember the job particulars but I remember trying to paint over a black felt pin mark once with white SS and it is AMAZING how you can spray that paint over that ink and it comes thru like you had painted it and wrote over the paint! I do believe you could apply 20 coats of paint and it wouldn't cover that damn ink!

Brian
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2013, 10:41 PM
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Oh the felt tipped pen issue brings a question to mind also. I have a customer with an autographed panel that he wants to put a coat of clear over to protect the signature from fading. It appears to have been signed with a sharpie type marker, and every test panel I have tried with a regular clear seems to make the ink (for lack of better explanation) blurry. It's like it causes the ink to start spreading out or bleed kind of. Anyone know if an intercoat clear would do the same? Reason I ask is I was thinking of trying an intercoat clear to "seal" the ink and then a coat of regular clear for shine and protection. I'm up for ideas to try on a test panel.

Kelly
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2013, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by carolinacustoms View Post
Oh the felt tipped pen issue brings a question to mind also. I have a customer with an autographed panel that he wants to put a coat of clear over to protect the signature from fading. It appears to have been signed with a sharpie type marker, and every test panel I have tried with a regular clear seems to make the ink (for lack of better explanation) blurry. It's like it causes the ink to start spreading out or bleed kind of. Anyone know if an intercoat clear would do the same? Reason I ask is I was thinking of trying an intercoat clear to "seal" the ink and then a coat of regular clear for shine and protection. I'm up for ideas to try on a test panel.

Kelly
maybe you can put clear tape and clear over that never done it but im assuming it worth a try on a test panel
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2013, 10:48 PM
put up or shut up
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Henry, the old adage of learning more when your is mouth is shut and and your listening, compared to when you open it to defend and or complain is so true...Don't you guys have a one tech that is in charge of quality control, training or mentoring the new guy...that sure would save you the aggravation of having to discuss this unnecessary stuff with your boss. Any shop I worked at that person was in place and it sure saved a lot of grief, the same grief you seem to be going through way to often...If you don't have it, maybe try and get one, if you do have it, the person that's doing it needs more power or autonomy.

It is real frustrating...I understand that.

Ray
we did have a manager but things that he should have picked up on needed to be spelled out for him. You're right, every shop needs a standard and people that are held liable for their work.

I recall when I first started it was me and a couple other pals at a top of the line production shop. When you're a newb there they start you at fast track, just small tear downs and bumper repairs. One guy was really lazy and he was the first to go. The second guy didn't like to get dirty and tested management, he was second to go. The third guy had talent but never accepted criticism, and he was the third to go. To this day, I'm the only guy out of the 4 that still do it. The third guy that had talent but never accepted criticism never moved up past small tear downs and bumper repairs. He's still trying to find a job in the trade but doesn't know much cause he didn't pass those few tests in the beginning, cause it's an investment on the company's part to have a journeyman tutor you.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2013, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by carolinacustoms View Post
Ray, I will take any advice you care to offer. I have always wanted to learn how to effectively use an airbrush, but never really invested any time or money into it. I am still doing a lot of reading and research on the subject. I am sure it (like most anything automotive) will take several years to become relatively proficient, so I am in no real hurry. I think based on what I have read, I want a 0.3mm tip. From what I have read it seems to be the most versatile for a beginner. Also I'm still trying to figure out which one to buy, like other paint guns there are millions on the market priced from $20 up to "Holy crap". I would like to stay in the $125ish or less range until I get a little ability anyway. I am mainly looking for something to play with for now and maybe do a little shadowing and that type of stuff to get a feel for things.

Kelly
When you decide to get that airbrush, let me know, I'll give a call and we can discuss different methods on how to get started and how to manipulate the airbrush to get different effects. It does take time, the best attributes you can posses to become well versed when using an airbrush are having a knowledge of color and if you can draw or sketch, that comes in real handy as well.

But let me know Kelly, I'd be happy to give you a hand.

Ray
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2013, 11:29 PM
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we did have a manager but things that he should have picked up on needed to be spelled out for him. You're right, every shop needs a standard and people that are held liable for their work.

I recall when I first started it was me and a couple other pals at a top of the line production shop. When you're a newb there they start you at fast track, just small tear downs and bumper repairs. One guy was really lazy and he was the first to go. The second guy didn't like to get dirty and tested management, he was second to go. The third guy had talent but never accepted criticism, and he was the third to go. To this day, I'm the only guy out of the 4 that still do it. The third guy that had talent but never accepted criticism never moved up past small tear downs and bumper repairs. He's still trying to find a job in the trade but doesn't know much cause he didn't pass those few tests in the beginning, cause it's an investment on the company's part to have a journeyman tutor you.
That's really unfortunate for all involved, the young fellow starting out, the person that's interested in taking someone new under their wing and guide them and the shop itself.

True, it is an investment on the part of the company but, if the process is handled properly, it pays off in spades. Everybody learns, including management and the moral goes up leaps and bounds...I've seen it work so often in many different shops, all successful shops as well.

Ray
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2013, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
When you decide to get that airbrush, let me know, I'll give a call and we can discuss different methods on how to get started and how to manipulate the airbrush to get different effects. It does take time, the best attributes you can posses to become well versed when using an airbrush are having a knowledge of color and if you can draw or sketch, that comes in real handy as well.

But let me know Kelly, I'd be happy to give you a hand.

Ray
I've had the same two Paasche VL's since the mid-70's. The kits I bought had different needle sizes included. I'm sure there are many other good ones out there - just never had the need to buy any others.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2013, 04:17 AM
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I'm starting to think we have too much in common, I've had two Passche's since the mid 80's...LOL. Great airbrushes and still prefer to use them over the Debilbus Dragon I purchased in 09. The Dragon works well but, the airbrush has rubber "O" rings that constantly seem to need replacing and at just under $20.00 a kit, the Passche's seem to be much more durable.

Another thing I've done is acquired my own mini compressor for my airbrushes. This investment allows me to airbrush anywhere. In the past I had run into situation where I wanted to airbrush something and the image I wanted to airbrush wasn't mobile, I would be painting from pictures and with the portable compressor, I could airbrush from a live image, just plug the compressor into any 110 V outlet, it maintains constant pressure and if I'm using in my home, my Wife only complains about a little bit of paint odor...LOL

Ray
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2013, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by carolinacustoms View Post
Oh the felt tipped pen issue brings a question to mind also. I have a customer with an autographed panel that he wants to put a coat of clear over to protect the signature from fading. It appears to have been signed with a sharpie type marker, and every test panel I have tried with a regular clear seems to make the ink (for lack of better explanation) blurry. It's like it causes the ink to start spreading out or bleed kind of. Anyone know if an intercoat clear would do the same? Reason I ask is I was thinking of trying an intercoat clear to "seal" the ink and then a coat of regular clear for shine and protection. I'm up for ideas to try on a test panel.

Kelly
Kelly, it's unfortunate that the panel was signed with a felt tipped pen, recently I had a similar situation with clearing over a signature of Joe Cooker on a guitar. The signature was signed with a gold pen made for autographs which doesn't distort when cleared...but even in this instance, the guitar came with a notarized letter of authenticity saying that the signature was real. The reason being is that after you have cleared a signature, some collectors feel that it looses it's value because all they can do is one stage of proving the signature is real. Apparently with today's technology many things can be forged and one way of checking is to see if the signature follows past signature patterns. Other things they look at is texture of the signature (high and low pressure points) and that becomes almost impossible if it has been cleared...maybe check that out.

I would think that the inter-coat clear would be even more subject to having the ink blurr or bleed being that inter-coat clear is basically a clear base coat and would have a higher solvent content that regular clear.

The transparent tape method mentioned could be a way to go, if your planning on clearing over top of the tape, just lightly scuff the clear tape before clearing (do a test panel first) just to secure adhesion. I would imagine that like anything else, vinyl's are different and from experience, I know some vinyls don't seem to want clear to stick to it.

But, check with your customer, maybe the sentimental value is more important than the monetary value, if that's the case, it's a great idea to preserve it. If it's a situation where he's also trying to maintain collector value, well, then this is a heads up.

Hope this helps Kelly

Ray
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2013, 08:18 AM
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Of course experimenting is easy though. Give the mid coat clear a try, applying it dry. Build up a few coats allowing it to thoroughly dry before spraying the clear, and again, spraying it a bit dry and with a fast reducer.

Brian
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