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Old 10-20-2013, 07:02 PM
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What primer should I use?

I have it all stripped to bare metal there was major serface rust on the top hood deck lid and some on the sides I have removed all the rust and want to put some primer on so it will not rust any more.
I used navel jelly and Phosporic prep & etch to remove all the rust as best I could
I have a Gallon of #KEY810 Self-Etch Primer 2K primer/filler

I have a gallon of #KEY850 Epoxy Prime 2k expoxy primer/sealer

Keystone Platinum refinish Brand. I was told this is a ppg product?

I was told use the 810 2 good coats then body work then 850 till its done

After lots of reading I am very confused if I should use the 810 at all Please help if you know about this stuff

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Old 10-20-2013, 07:14 PM
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First of all, I'm very familiar with PPG but not familiar with Keystone.

Generally, after a vehicle has been stripped and roughed up with 80 grit on a DA, 2 coats of Epoxy should be applied. Let it set up for at least 24 hours and do your body work. Most Epoxy primers have a 7 day recoatability window (check with your tech sheet) where sanding is not required for top coating...if you go past that window, sand the Epoxy with 180 grit and re apply more Epoxy.

Once the body work is done, with PPG primer Epoxy primer, a high build primer would be recommended as PPG's Epoxy primers don't usually sand all that well (The DP line doesn't for sure). Then block sand the high build primer until the body is straight with either 400 dry or 600 wet and paint.

As I said, usually epoxy goes over bare metal...I'm not familiar with Keystone primers.

Hope this helps, if not keep asking I'll try and explain.

Ray
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Old 10-20-2013, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
First of all, I'm very familiar with PPG but not familiar with Keystone.

Generally, after a vehicle has been stripped and roughed up with 80 grit on a DA, 2 coats of Epoxy should be applied. Let it set up for at least 24 hours and do your body work. Most Epoxy primers have a 7 day recoatability window (check with your tech sheet) where sanding is not required for top coating...if you go past that window, sand the Epoxy with 180 grit and re apply more Epoxy.

Once the body work is done, with PPG primer Epoxy primer, a high build primer would be recommended as PPG's Epoxy primers don't usually sand all that well (The DP line doesn't for sure). Then block sand the high build primer until the body is straight with either 400 dry or 600 wet and paint.

As I said, usually epoxy goes over bare metal...I'm not familiar with Keystone primers.

Hope this helps, if not keep asking I'll try and explain.

Ray

Keystone is a generic label paint sold by LKQ I was told its the same as ppg?

is the self etching primer not needed ?
is the self etching primer 2k an expoxy as well ?
will the paint job hold up better with or with out it ?
I can get more keystone bramd products if needed like a filler primer or what ever. I just want it right it been alot of work
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:01 PM
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Your KEY810 self Etch 2K Primer/Filler is what's throwing me off. Generally an Etch primer doesn't have fill properties....I was a PPG Rep for a few years and I'm not aware of any PPG product that's an Etch and fills at the same time. SO, I'd stay on the safe side, use the Epoxy as outlined in my previous post (after reading Keystones tech sheets on things like induction time, if needed...and the recoatability window) and after your filler work is done and all bare metal spots have been top coated with Epoxy....use a High Build primer over the vehicle for blocking and getting the vehicle straight. self etch & 2K primer/filler I'm suspicious.

If your more concerned about right...get a 2 part high build and apply it as I outlined above...that way I can sleep better at night knowing I wasn't guessing about a a self etch 2K primer/filler.

Being I'm from Canada and the fact that it just might take me a little longer to get acronyms...what does LKQ stand for?

Hope this helps.

Ray
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:18 AM
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LKQ == Like Kind Quality
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:58 AM
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Thanks...Acronyms always screw me up.

Ray
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonkaYJ View Post
Keystone is a generic label paint sold by LKQ I was told its the same as ppg?

is the self etching primer not needed ?
Not needed, don't use it

Quote:
is the self etching primer 2k an expoxy as well ?
Highly doubtful.

Quote:
will the paint job hold up better with or with out it ?
Definitely better with the epoxy to bare metal than the self etch. Though epoxies vary in quality and efficacy.

Quote:
I can get more keystone bramd products if needed like a filler primer or what ever. I just want it right it been alot of work
I would start using SPI material as soon as you can. For a beginner, the tech help is invaluable, the price is right, and quality is top notch.
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Old 10-24-2013, 07:53 AM
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Warning....

Before you spray any primer you better sand the crap outta everything you used acid and jelly on then wipe it all down with a water based wax & grease remover really well ,after epoxy primer you should sand or try to scrape off the primer just to be sure its stuck on there well before you waste a ton of time doing body work and paint....people have a lot of trouble using acid so either dont use it or use it properly and test for adheasion before going any farther...
epoxy over metal,filler over epoxy, then epoxt again, sorta like an epoxy sandwich.
If you use a sandable epoxy you wont need any other primer so be sure to use a sandable epoxy...its cheaper and better in the long run.
when you spray the epoxy be sure its warm enough outside or you'll have adheasion trouble...I never paid much attention to the warnings and last december I sprayed an entire car when it was too cold and had to strip and prime it all over again....Thank God I always test for adheasion before doing any body work or it would have been a nightmare

Last edited by deadbodyman; 10-24-2013 at 07:59 AM.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:43 AM
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Thanks alot for all the info everyone! I washed it with soap and water and dyed it with paper towels then sanded the crap out of it with 80 grit washed it again with wax and greese remover,sanded the crap out of it again with 180 washed the crap out of it again with wax and greese remover it sat over night the next day was a 70 deg. day so I washed it for about 2 hrs again then started spraying epoxy I layed two good coats on and then pulled it out in the sun and let it sit all day looks good and it seems to be stuck on very good! I got a extra galon of the epoxy it is sandable I also got a gallon of there Pro Prime key805 med to heavy filler primer I was planning on using wile doing the body work. should I or should I use all epoxy? the epoxy says only 2 coats, pro prime says 2-5 coats as desired will the epoxy fill? can it be applyed in sevral layers at 2 coats?
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:04 AM
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as a novice I would use the filling primer. Their epoxy primer may not be high solids/as high building as SPI's epoxy primer, and even then, I still have a lot easier time building with a 2k building primer than I do SPI's epoxy.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:06 AM
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what prep do I do to the epoxy before I add filler? If i hit it with 80 wont it rip right through
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:48 AM
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I can only speak for SPI; if it's within the 7 day recoat period no prep is need, otherwise I would scuff with 220. Even in the 7 day recoat period you could still scuff with 220 if it makes you feel better. Your epoxy may be different. I'd go by what the tech sheet for the filler says.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:36 AM
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Sounds like you really paid attention to your metal prep so I think you'll be ok with your adheasion....
speaking for myself only...I dont pay any attention to that window stuff...I ALWAYS sand the epoxy before applying any filler or more primer even if its more epoxy...I'd DA sand the original 2 coats of epoxy with 180, apply filler then when the filler work is done apply two more coats of epoxy ,let it cure then sand again with 180 and THEN use the fill primer if needed...
One of the nice things about sanding the epoxy insted of using the recoat window is sometimes it looks cured and feels cured but when you sand it it'll ball up on the sandpaper indicating it needs more time to cure I dont like putting filler over uncured epoxy (within the window) it just feels wrong but theres a lot of guys that do it so I guess its ok but I dont...
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Old 10-25-2013, 07:00 AM
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Mike, I agree, maybe it's old school, don't know but, if giving Epoxy a scuff with 180 doesn't hurt, then it might help. I always rough up my Epoxy before it gets filler...it just feels right...like clean underwear right out of the dryer....LOL...it just feels right....or is that "feels good"....LOL

Ray
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:29 AM
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it feels hot on my bawls and I don't like that
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