What is Quality? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 08:26 AM
jcclark's Avatar
The Penny Pincher
 

Last journal entry: Hanging Bumpers
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, Ky. U.S.A.
Age: 61
Posts: 1,870
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
What is Quality?

Here's a subjective subject.
What is quality? let's say for clears (for now)
Why do so many body shops spend more for a name brand clear
when there's a cheaper alternative?, even with the same brand!
Everyone will probably answer it's quality, but what is that?
Will the premium brand last longer?
And if so how will the cheaper brand not last?
Will the cheaper clear delaminate, crack, or what?
What is it that the low quality clear is gonna do?

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 08:48 AM
Beenaway2long's Avatar
or Jeff, or Doc, or...
 

Last journal entry: Results of the Camaro
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Syracuse, NY-well, just North
Age: 51
Posts: 988
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
How do you measure quality?

By ease of application?
By components in the product?
Longevity?


Lets say that ABC product is comprised of every highquality component, yet is difficult to achieve a quality finish. Is it junk?

DEF Company uses medium quality components, but applies beautifully.

GHI Company uses low quality products, CHEAP , price wise, applies great and lasts 80% of how long ABC does.

So who is the best?

I have no clue how you would even ATTEMPT to rank a product, as each fits its own marketing strategy.
Maybe a 5 star rating program for each classification?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 12:16 PM
Bee4Me's Avatar
Problem Child,Hard Case
 

Last journal entry: Strangest job I've ever done
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ARK.
Age: 57
Posts: 1,773
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Most shops are "obligated" to "who ever" they have the "Deal" with.
Quality is not a priority. The "DEAL" is.

Low quality is "trying" to get a "Deal".

JMO.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 12:25 PM
jcclark's Avatar
The Penny Pincher
 

Last journal entry: Hanging Bumpers
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, Ky. U.S.A.
Age: 61
Posts: 1,870
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee4Me
Most shops are "obligated" to "who ever" they have the "Deal" with.
Quality is not a priority. The "DEAL" is.

Low quality is "trying" to get a "Deal".

JMO.
I understand that but if a shop is using DuPont paint wouldn't they
also have Nasson as an option for a lower price.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 12:34 PM
OneMoreTime's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: Yard Dog pic
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Age: 69
Posts: 7,238
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 38
Thanked 128 Times in 124 Posts
Quality..My take

If you are the painter then something that is easy to apply..buffs out good and does not cost a whole lot is probably a good product..

If you are the end user then something that is diamond hard..does not show scratches and is easy to maintain is what is desired..

Now getting all of that in one can is the question..

OMT
__________________
I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 12:41 PM
shine's Avatar
SPI Thug
 

Last journal entry: some progress
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bluff dale texas
Posts: 2,644
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 169 Times in 139 Posts
the point is " do you want to find out on somebody else's car" ? one failure can wipe out a lot of profits. i just don't want to go there. not worth the risk to me. the cost savings are just not that much.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 01:07 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,909
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quality-- Just my recent experience, A couple of months ago I painted my daughters 04 Mustang(front clip) with Dupont and the results were fantastic no problems, no surprises and it looks great,I mean if anything it looked better than the factory paint. Is Dupont Pricey? yes, worth it? you bet,--quality. Now my 64 1/2 Mustang, I let a couple of fellows at my weld shop talk me into using Nason as they convinced me it was great stuff and I read mostly good things about it here but I quickly found out that it takes a LOT more base to cover and the clear did not flow as well nor can I seem to get the gloss of the DuPont clear--lack of quality. You guys are all painters and know, as I do also, that some or all of these problems may very well be my fault but to me anyway quality products means a better chance of success and a better finish. From now on no more "econo line" stuff for me. I will be starting my next project soon and I plan on using SPI for everything I can this time since from what everyone here says, and I have no doubt, that the quality of these products is not in question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 01:33 PM
shine's Avatar
SPI Thug
 

Last journal entry: some progress
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bluff dale texas
Posts: 2,644
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 169 Times in 139 Posts
no one has ever asked me to use cheaper paint

as long as there's a smile in the windshield...everythings cool
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 02:40 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,578
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 61 Times in 39 Posts
This is an impossible question to answer.

Yes, there are some cheap clears that will be as good or better than the $250-300 a gallon majors.

Yes, there are some that are not good at all.

Most I would say are of good value, if not the majority.
There are just so many ifs and buts with this subject.

Main thing is whatever clear you settle on, try to make sure when done sanding and buffing you end up with 2 mils or more of clear left for maximum protection. If this is done you will most likely not have a problem.

Peeling today is almost a non-issue as the core resins are so good, basically a peel job today will be a result of trapped solvents, out of window on base or dry spraying of metallics or to thin a clear coat left for protection.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 03:07 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: texas, earth
Posts: 420
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
no one has ever asked me to use cheaper paint

as long as there's a smile in the windshield...everythings cool
ok/.....no one has asked you to use cheaper paint........how many have asked "why does it cost so much to paint my car" wah wah wah

how goes the truck project, and project inderweed for that matter ???
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 04:30 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Green Bay, WI
Age: 44
Posts: 2,073
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Well if the shop is certified by the paint company, they are going to use the clear that is recommended for the base or the warrenty would be out the window and the paint manufacturer won't cover any problems that arrose. As far as clears go, I think many of the less expensive brands are as good as the more expensive ones, but how do you know? I know I don't get to see stuff 10-15 years down the road and see how much better say chromaclear would be then nason. For an average car I don't see a problem using a less expensive clear. but I guess something that you are planing on keeping for a very long time, I guess its your risk. I know I've mixed different brands of primer, base and clear many times and haven't seen a problem, but it isn't recommended and a risk. I do believe sometimes you are paying for the name more then just quality. One of my old bosses had a chromabase mixing system for color match, but used a cheaper clear as he said the chromaclear was so expensive. He was pretty quality minded, so I imagine he didn't run into problems, or he wouldn't have continued to do it. Whats quality, who knows? I guess something you get constant good results with as well as how easy it is to get those results. I know I quit using k200 urethane primer years ago and started using marhyde ultimate primer, and I don't notice much difference between the two, other then price.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 06:40 PM
BondoKing's Avatar
KING OF BONDO
 

Last journal entry: My little helper
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kentucky
Age: 40
Posts: 809
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I watched this thread today between working and I think it is really about the products themselves.. If we use the products per the P sheets and have problems with one and not the other, I would say the one with the problems may be lesser in quality.. this is of course subjective to the environment and application..

I had a trim piece I had to repair from a paint job I did last week... Used AF clear which I openly will tell anyone is crap, crap, crap... Allow me to explain... For some reason the clear bunched up when I was buffing on this trim piece... shouldn't have but it did... I sanded it down re based and applied one coat of clear... waited 30 minutes applied a second medium coat... waited 45 minutes and applied a third coat... Clear starting popping a few minutes after it was on..... This should not happen.. garage is heated and kept at 75 or slightly above.. proper mix ratio's and overkill on flash times... This same clear popped on the car when 3rd coat was applied....

Quality product.... I think not.. It was a decent clear 3 years ago and cheap... Not anymore

Flip side, I use spi clears ... apply more coats than that... never one problem..


Longevity wise I don't know how we as painters/body men can tell you unless we have seen the products last over time...However as the years go by most products are going to change, so what we buy today is not what we buy 6 years down the road.

Matthew
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 06:51 PM
Bee4Me's Avatar
Problem Child,Hard Case
 

Last journal entry: Strangest job I've ever done
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ARK.
Age: 57
Posts: 1,773
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I do know this,
QUALITY is NOT cheap.
Barry can probly explain the chemistry behind paint & clear but I see it being the FACT that you need X amount of ingredients to produce a GOOD product.
Simplisity is also a BIG factor.
You should NOT have to be a chemist to spray paint.

Quality,IMO, Should be a fair priced,easy to use,long lasting product.

'Course,THAT won't happen very often as Manuf's who SEE that their product is good and being widely used will quickly deside to raise their price's as they get a "rep" for good stuff and want to get rich.

Then, You have the price of materials & manuf. Cost's rise and so do prices.

Just watch TV for an evening and YOU tell me what happens to quality.
Bunch of "unknown's" start a show,GREAT program,Making ton's of MONEY,after a few seasons,it goes to the crapper. Greed,Pure and simple.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 07:34 PM
adtkart@aol.com
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 3,220
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Though quality may not be cheap, it doesn't mean that higher price is quality.I recently priced Dupont clear at around $200 per gallon. Now SPI clear is priced at below $100 a gallon. Does that mean that it is lower in quality? I don't think so. I have used Dupont and also Nason clears in the past, and had good luck with them. The Nason was considerably lower in price than the Dupont, but the job looked as good when I was done.

One shop that I worked in changed brands while I was thee. The change was obviously due to financial incentives. The management made it sound like the new manufacturer's paint was the best stuff on the market. Before that, the previous manufacturer's product was the best on the market. We never had a problem with the previous product.

On the average, I believe that the quality of the paint is in the appearance. Since most people only keep a vehicle a few years, as long as the paint keeps that acceptable appearance for that long, it is considered "Quality", atleast by that owner.

Obviously to the one that is painting, the level of quality if determined by the ease of use.

Aaron
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2005, 07:36 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,578
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 61 Times in 39 Posts
"Bunch of "unknown's" start a show,GREAT program,Making ton's of MONEY,after a few seasons,it goes to the crapper. Greed,Pure and simple."

***********************************************
Only thing you forgot is a year later most of them are now in drug rehab or dry-out centers and the rest of them are getting divorced and remarried for the third time this year.

So much for my ranting and back to what you said, the above statement should be posted on every company owners door for daily reading.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
QUALITY '41 Willys bodies? Homeslice Hotrodders' Lounge 7 01-20-2008 10:43 AM
Help - quality of TRW suspension parts 69Z Suspension - Brakes - Steering 8 01-08-2004 06:28 PM
Quality paint work in Florida janine80 Body - Exterior 3 07-16-2003 10:10 AM
Quality of "off brand" parts? newchevyman Engine 5 07-07-2003 10:40 PM
Quality Control????????? dmorris1200 Hotrodders' Lounge 11 10-15-2002 07:32 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.