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Old 02-04-2003, 06:38 AM
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Post what really is a muscle car??

we all have our own ideas about what a muscle car is but no matter what the make,model or in some cases the year dosent matter at all but in turn a muscle car is not just some rear wheel drive back yard rumbler a muscle car is a car that you can get in off the dealership and take to the drag strip and handle buisness not a hopped up grocery getter no a muscle car is a FACTORY HOTROD! now some may wonder why i posted this but i was on another topic and it made me think
a list of what i call a muscle cari will start with ford and work my way down
1.the 1963 427 fact light weight galixie
2.the 1964 427 t bolt
3.any r coded 427 super drag pack full size ford
4.the 1966 mustang gt350R
5.the 1969/1970 boss 429 mustangs
6.the 1969/1970 p code police intecptor falcons which are not a factory car but a dealer added 428cj
7.the 67 1/2 cj mustangs
8.the 5.0 cobra and saleen cars of the late 80's
even though 5.0s are popular any one should admit that the 5.0 is one of the best motors ford has ever produced

choverlet
1. the 57 black widow belair
2.ls6 chevelles with drag pac
3.copo camaros all types
4.???
5.????
6.?????

GM

1.the crysler 300 (hemi) fact lightweight cars
2.the hemi powered beasts of the late sixties and early 70s(challenger,cuda,charger,1963 d100 sport)
3.the hemi dodge dart
4.the pontiac formula 400 fire bird with drag pak

for all those i left out

any factory light weight made to just go fast!

fell free to post what cars you feel ar muscle cars

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Old 02-04-2003, 06:41 AM
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i am sorry that it seem i am partial to fords
because i am and dont know as much about the other makes as i do about ford i am sure that i left out plenty of worthy machines
sorry for the partiliaity
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:03 PM
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I dont really dig muscle cars as much as older stuff, but when I hear muscle car I think Charger, Challenger, Sattalite, Cuda, Road Runner, Daytona, Superbird, GTX, Super Bee, RT or even some of the Darts and Furies.
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:37 PM
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A MUSCLE IS ANYTHING OLD THAT HAS A BIG MOTOR BIG TIRES AND IS FAST
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:42 PM
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When the GTO debuted in 1964, this was the beginning of the Muscle Car era. It was a lightweight body with a high cube engine. The 442 came in right behind it. It took FORD, CHRYSLER and CHEVROLET a while to catch on to what was happening.

The lightweight Galaxies and T-Bolts are not considered muscle cars as they were built especially for racing and not everyone could go down to the dealer and purchase them. FORD didn't actually enter the picture until the introduction of the CJ in 1968. A 289 MUSTANG just didn't cut it on the street.

As the years passed we saw the Road Runner, 396/375 Nova and a Boss 429. 1971 was just about the last year for it. Emission laws and insurance companies saw to that.

Anything other than a factory showroom piece is not part of that niche in history in my opinion.
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:46 PM
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[quote]6.the 1969/1970 p code police intecptor falcons which are not a factory car but a dealer added 428cj<hr></blockquote>

The 69/70FALCON was an intermediate and was never fitted with an FE (factory). You must be thinking of the 70 1/2 FALCON (Torino body) that came through with the 429CJ/429SCJ.
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Old 02-04-2003, 01:59 PM
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chevy-
corvette,camaro, nova, late year impalas

ford-
mustang, HENRY J, shelby, galaxie

dodge-
dart, chevelle, charger

I registered here, lost my password and then found it agian, good to be back.
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Old 02-04-2003, 02:06 PM
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Hey, listen to KULTULZ! He is absolutely, positively correct. John DeLorean, at much personal risk since GM specifically told him 'NO!' to his idea of a big engine in a Tempest to attract the younger generation, put together the GTO completely on the sly. He some how got it to market before the GM bosses caught wind of it and could prosecute him and the rest is history. It is a great cloak and dagger story of a guy who bucked a huge intractible buracracy and did what was in their best interest over their vicious objections. I think DeLorean wrote an autobiography that covers that time period in detail. That lead to the predictable Detroit response of 'Me-too-ism' and you got the Chevelles Camaro's, 442s, Wildcats, Hemi-XXs, and 440-XXs, 428 &427 Fords, etc., etc. The muscle car era lasted from '64 'til the '71 gas crisis and it was over. Other hot cars were before and after that time and are great but they aren't specifically muscle cars.
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Old 02-04-2003, 02:59 PM
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While I am not in disagreement with the definition several of you have given as to what a "Muscle Car" is, I feel there is more to it than what you have posted. What about the '57 Ford's and Studebaker's with factory installed McCulloch superchargers? Or Pontiac's from '57 with factory installed tri-power or two four's? I started to include '58 Chevy 348's with factory tri-power, but they were a stone with the turbo-glide trans. Plymouth offered two fours in '57. Corvette had two-fours in '56 and tri-power in '54 & '55. (Not sure about the '53 but I think it also came with tri-power)Chevy's used the 30-30 Duntov cam way before '64! Even Cadillac's could be had with two fours. In '53, Buick offered an "export cam & kit" that was a high lift long duration cam. Even Hudson had twin H power in '49. Cord had a supercharged engine in the late '30's. Now you might not consider these vehicles and others I haven't mentioned as "Muscle Cars"; but they sure were factory Hot Rods and led the way to what you consider true muscle cars. That's my two cents.

[ February 04, 2003: Message edited by: Frisco ]</p>
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Old 02-04-2003, 03:41 PM
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How many blown '57 FORD's or two four barrel 409 Impalas did you actually see? How many cross-ram hemi's did you see? How many could actually afford them?

With the introduction of the GOAT in 1964, ANYONE could buy a factory supercar.

Didn't the 53/54 Vettes only have the Blue Flame Six in it?
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Old 02-04-2003, 04:05 PM
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I think that musclecars started in the late fifties also. I love musclecars however there doesn't seem to be as much individuality or expression with them. I think you can do far more with 20-50's cars. I'm not brand specific, if its got power, looks righteous and sounds right...its all good.
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Old 02-04-2003, 04:08 PM
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[quote]When the GTO debuted in 1964, this was the beginning of the Muscle Car era. It was a lightweight body with a high cube engine. <hr></blockquote>
I definately agree with Kultulz's description. But I also have a theory as to why the term 'muscle car' has expanded over the year to many people. I think that over the years as these 'true' muscle cars became harder and harder to come by people started to include more cars into the mix. I got my license in '82 and not too many kids I hung out with could afford a ShelbyGT500 or a hemi Cuda. So what was left of that era was the small block Mustangs and Cougars, the 318 Mopars, the 350 Camaros. We bought these cars (looks the same as their 'muscle' counterparts) and souped them up. Certainly I don't consider my '73 Mustang to be in the same league as a SCJ Mustang, but it is also the closest I'll ever get to having a Shelby or Boss Mustang. So to me, my car still represents a piece of 'muscle car' history by it's body lines and what it stands for.
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Old 02-04-2003, 04:43 PM
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Yeah 53 and 54 vettes had blue flame sixes, but with 3 carbs and a factory header.
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Old 02-04-2003, 05:03 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by drgnwgn289:


<strong>Yeah 53 and 54 vettes had blue flame sixes, but with 3 carbs and a factory header.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Must be one reason the '55 BIRD sold so well...
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Old 02-04-2003, 05:36 PM
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Performance cars have always been manufactured, but the factory described "muscle cars" started, just as Kulutz said with the 64 Goat. As Delorean put it, "I put a 389 in a small Tempest body, with a four-speed, the thing was drunk with torque, all of my friends loved it." The GTO was born. This was the first "muscle car package," but of course alot of bad machines existed before then, like the Studebaker Golden Hawk, or the Chrysler 300s with Hemi Power or Ram Induction, the real fine 409s, the Thunderbolt Fords, and lest we forget the almighty 426 Super Stock wedge and the Hemi, but notice that most of these cars were not intermediates, they were full sized cars with outrageous engines.
Pontiac GTO
Chevrolet Chevelle SS396 and SS454
Olds 442
Buick GS
Ford Torino GT and Cobra
Ford Fairlane GTA
Mercury Cyclone
Probably more Fords I can't think of
Plymouth RoadRunner
Plymouth GTX
Dodge SuperBee
Dodge Coronet R/T
Plymouth Superbird
Dodge Daytona Charger
Of course the ponycars could be grouped in here, but they are really a different category of performance car, technically speaking as well as the Corvette and Cobra. Impala SS,Dodge Charger,and other full size cars really aren't technically a "muscle-car"
Of course there are alot of special derivatives from the normal muscle cars like the 442 based Hurst/Olds, or The GTO Judge, ect but basically the same stuff.

[ February 04, 2003: Message edited by: NAIRB ]</p>
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