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Old 10-27-2005, 09:39 AM
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What is right with traditional/rat rods

The what's wrong crowd got me take an inventory of spare parts and start making plans to screw one together. Got a '28 closed cab PU body, an old box, got a tremac 5speed,, Halibrand champ rearend, drilled out '32 front axle, and choice of 3 different 4 cylinder engines. I can use a '63 153 cube. 4 cyl, an Olds quad 4 or an Ecotec 4 banger. Roughly figuring I should be able to keep it under 1500 lbs. and just may leave the front brakes off for an artistic statement. But I would use discs on the rear.
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Old 10-27-2005, 03:01 PM
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I like what you are saying. EXCEPT the rear only brakes.

In my younger days I ran an old Anglia with a big block on the streets. At first with no front brakes. HeII what could those little weenie front tires stop anyways! Scary!!!! I learned that the front brakes do MOST of the braking. Even in a not so nose heavy car, when you get into a serious/panic situation, the rear wheels lock up and you are in the toolies, after you hit what you were trying to avoid.

I never did crash the car (now stored in the barn) but I had to change the laundry a few times!!! Then installed some front discs. Sometimes you have to be hit with the hard knocks a few times when your young, but I learned a valuable lesson.
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Old 10-27-2005, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalopy45
..... and just may leave the front brakes off for an artistic statement......
You know what Forrest Gump used to say, "Stupid is as stupid does."
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Old 10-27-2005, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalopy45
The what's wrong crowd got me take an inventory of spare parts and start making plans to screw one together. Got a '28 closed cab PU body, an old box, got a tremac 5speed,, Halibrand champ rearend, drilled out '32 front axle, and choice of 3 different 4 cylinder engines. I can use a '63 153 cube. 4 cyl, an Olds quad 4 or an Ecotec 4 banger. Roughly figuring I should be able to keep it under 1500 lbs. and just may leave the front brakes off for an artistic statement. But I would use discs on the rear.
Sounds great except the brake part, but thats all up to you of course. The only way no brakes up front look good are if you're running dragster looking wire wheels, but even the cool look cant beat saftey of front brakes. Go with the Olds engine and be different. Polish the '32 axel and go suicide setup for the front. A 3" chop and a slight channel....


Mike
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Old 10-27-2005, 08:35 PM
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The point is that it will stop and it can be made safe, for the last 11 years I've been driving an altered at 171.087 (best speed) with only rear brakes and only went to discs on the rear to add more weight. But on the other hand it is designed only for a straight line. As for stupid is what stupid does, think about it! Using a 4 cylinder engine I will probably not have more than 700 lbs. on the front wheels which would afford very little braking energy. The other point I would like to make is that it would be mostly a short distance and low speed driver, probably like the one displayed in the what is wrong with traditional/rat rods thread, Which has had a fair amount of engineering and fabrication put into it, including the automatic hooked up to the flathead.(look for the red trans dipstick tube with the door handle) But chop the PU, yes and channel yes, and leaning towards the Quad4 because it looks like an OFFY
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Old 10-27-2005, 09:49 PM
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Boy! let me tell you what... All this talk of hotrod safety these days really makes me feel like an old fart. Some of the The stuff I used to try and stop was just too freakin' out there in left field to even strike up a decent conversation over. No front brakes? How's about just rear brakes of the "E" type?
The thing is, is where I come from, 35 years ago there was a hell of a whole lot less traffic, traffic lights and or congestion to worry about. Back then, it was relativly "safe" to drive a cobbled together rat rod as long as you knew your car's limitations and adjusted your driving accordingly.
Times have DAMN sure changed...
Today here in Oregon, we're still 'blessed' with not having to go through DMV tech. inspections to get our hotrods licenced and insured for driving on the street and I'd like to keep it that way.
With all the killer brake systems that are availble today, even from wrecking yards, it makes NO sense at all not to make a rat rod stop as well as go.

My2centsworth
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Old 10-27-2005, 09:55 PM
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You know I have to get in on this one too. I have an Idea for artistic touch!!! Get some of those new mountain bike disc, they have a pretty big OD and some calipers to match, then put the brake handle on the shifter. That would really get the safety police in a tizzy. oh and use a helmet as your air scoop, and mount the radiator with a spare seat belt. Ha. or make some fenders like a prowler and mount the bicycle brakes there so the work the same way they work on a bike.

Get some old truck drums and turn 'em into rims.
just some ideas I was kicking around.
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Old 10-28-2005, 07:30 AM
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R.E. Front Brakes

Here's a little experiment for you.

Take your kid's bike, pedal down the street as fast as you can, lean back so lots of weight is on the rear tire, apply the rear brake reallllllyyyyyy hard and measure your stopping distance.

Now, do the same thing using both brakes. Big difference, huh?

If you still think that no front brakes on a really light car is a good idea, do it again in the rain.

If you still think that no front brakes on a really light car is a good idea, make sure to post on this and all other boards when and where you will be cruising so everyone else can keep themselves and their loved ones off the street.

Sorry if this seems a bit harsh, but no front brakes? That's not a statement you want to make.
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Old 10-28-2005, 10:10 AM
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No it's not harsh it is the same, debate that has been going on all week. Try this experiment. Disconnect your front brakes knowing good and well they are not working, and stop! Holly cow it looks like you didn't blow that light after all. Sure you had to slow down 50 yards before you stopped but so what you stopped.
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Old 10-28-2005, 01:02 PM
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I don't understand how anyone could build something without a good brake system. The 0-100 should be on the same level as the 100-0.
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Old 10-28-2005, 05:26 PM
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top fuel dragsters don't have front brakes, but they don't drive on the street, i guess their parachute is the backup brake
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Old 10-28-2005, 06:02 PM
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I don't have much to add, but this debate is asinine. Put front brakes on your cars if you are going to drive them in today's traffic. Remember, you have to be able to stop nearly as well as the Mercedes/corvette/civic in front of you, or even as well as the hot rod in front of you. You know, the one with a well designed brake system.
And as for this "it's a light car argument" Think about weight transfer when you really stomp on the brakes, I bet the 'moment' created on the front wheels is well over 700 lbs, suddenly that front braking force isn't so minuscule.
and walks away
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Old 10-28-2005, 08:12 PM
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I like my car in one piece. I don't need someone getting into the back of me because of a panic stop because they had no front brakes. I just about pounded the last guy to run into me, he drove a Honda Passport. I don't want to have to pound someone because of a major design flaw. I don't care if you are John Force and only have back brakes. Those are on dedicated drag cars that have so much room to slow down they won't have a problem. The smallest drum brakes in the world are better than no brakes. If you drive on modern roads with new cars you better be able to keep up (or down) with them.
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Old 10-28-2005, 09:04 PM
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Dad's advice...

My Dad (God rest his soul) gave me some very valuable advice at an early age...

He said:
"Son ... if you ever feel that you're always right, and that EVERYONE ELSE is always wrong ... it might be time to take a hard look at what you're doing or saying."



So ... just in case you still need things pointed out to you:

If it only takes 50 inches/feet/yards longer to stop that a car WITHOUT front brakes, I certainly hope that somebody's kid(s) are not IN that 50 (whatever).

The other (not so) funny thing that I've noticed is that kids never jump out 50 YARDS in front of car so that you can PLAN to brake early.

An "accident" (avoidable or not) can happen in nano-seconds, but can cause a lifetime of heart-ache, regret, pain, and guilt ... and that's just some of what the DRIVER feels... how about the victim and his/her family?

C'mon ... use your brains ... it's the little things that count!

And this is NOT an attack on Rat Rods ... I feel this way about ANY vehicle / driver that unthinkingly (or worse, deliberately) endangers other lives ... that includes you "Mr. E-brakes Only" ...
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Old 10-28-2005, 09:18 PM
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The first time you have to slam on your brakes really hard you're gonna be wondering why you're facing the wrong way in the road. The minute you slam on the brakes all of the weight on the back tires is transferred forward and onto where your front brakes would normally be...
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