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-   -   What steps to take to prevent Rock chips... (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/what-steps-take-prevent-rock-chips-179814.html)

jeetkunedoground 06-20-2010 06:37 PM

What steps to take to prevent Rock chips...
 
Any tips to creating a chip proof paint job?

At least close to chip proof ;)

all i could think of is that scratch resistant clear coat?

thanks in advance

mike

blgli 06-21-2010 07:36 PM

yea, dont drive the car ;)

but in all honesty all cars that are driven will get wear and tear on them

DanielC 06-21-2010 09:41 PM

It will help if you do not tailgate other cars.

BarryK 06-22-2010 06:34 AM

My favorite subject!

No simple answer but it starts with bare metal, not a sanded substrate.
Proper treatment of the metal I would say is the number one way to cut the chip potential.
Next is proper coats of epoxy with extreme flash times.

2K primer, if you want to use a talc filed primer because its cheap, skip the first suggestion and don't worry about chips.

Use a good primer and here again, you are not going to do this like a shop that does insurance work all day long, you are going to do extreme flash times.

Sealer, if chips are a real concern the only sealer you will use will be an epoxy, 2K urethane sealers are for production work.

Clear, hard for people to understand but three coats of an acrylic urethane, you are starting to go back-wards as far as depth and stone chip resistance.
Production clears are not the most durable clears.
The harder the clear the worse the chips will be, take a history lesson with the old 7600, then hc7600 and now, may be discontinued altogether, not sure but that is what I was told.

EVERY paint company has their one polyurethane allover clear, usually the most expensive, for custom work and durability.
Two examples, PPG 2002 best clear they have and a great clear.
Dupont use to have their 7800 glamor clear, that was a great clear but been changed twice now and don't know todays number.

Here again extreme flash times are the key words and car should not be waxed.

If you think you can skimp out on the prep and use a great clear, you will gain a little, but best to just hold your breath.

EDIT:
Forgot one of the most important things.
Use a good base and most important ACTIVATE it.

shine 06-22-2010 08:08 AM

i taught my painters not to get extreme build on forward surfaces. no need for 20 mills of primer on the front end. the thicker the primer the bigger the chip. but i use epoxy now and don't have that problem anymore.

SS66chevelle 06-22-2010 08:47 AM

The only thing that works is the 3m "clear bra" stuff.. its a transparent plastic film thats die cut to fit specific models. If you have a professional install it you can hardly tell its there. It goes on with soap/water and a squeegie. We just had it applied to our 2010 Accord Coupe (black car) and its awesome.. hint: dont do it yourself it will look like hell no matter how hard you try :)


Quote:

Originally Posted by jeetkunedoground
Any tips to creating a chip proof paint job?

At least close to chip proof ;)

all i could think of is that scratch resistant clear coat?

thanks in advance

mike


panelwagon62 06-22-2010 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryK
My favorite subject!

No simple answer but it starts with bare metal, not a sanded substrate.
Proper treatment of the metal I would say is the number one way to cut the chip potential.
Next is proper coats of epoxy with extreme flash times.

2K primer, if you want to use a talc filed primer because its cheap, skip the first suggestion and don't worry about chips.

Use a good primer and here again, you are not going to do this like a shop that does insurance work all day long, you are going to do extreme flash times.

Sealer, if chips are a real concern the only sealer you will use will be an epoxy, 2K urethane sealers are for production work.

Clear, hard for people to understand but three coats of an acrylic urethane, you are starting to go back-wards as far as depth and stone chip resistance.
Production clears are not the most durable clears.
The harder the clear the worse the chips will be, take a history lesson with the old 7600, then hc7600 and now, may be discontinued altogether, not sure but that is what I was told.

EVERY paint company has their one polyurethane allover clear, usually the most expensive, for custom work and durability.
Two examples, PPG 2002 best clear they have and a great clear.
Dupont use to have their 7800 glamor clear, that was a great clear but been changed twice now and don't know todays number.

Here again extreme flash times are the key words and car should not be waxed.

If you think you can skimp out on the prep and use a great clear, you will gain a little, but best to just hold your breath.

EDIT:
Forgot one of the most important things.
Use a good base and most important ACTIVATE it.




Barry, by no means am i trying to call you out here as i am a spi user and love the products. The proper treatment of the metel you refer to is just sanded with 80grit and use a high grade waterbourne W&G remover then epoxy? When you speak on the 2k surfacer being talc filled, dont all surfacers have talc? do your 2K primers have it? Normally i epoxy, mud work, epoxy then surfacer, do i still have the same durability as i would if i just used epoxy? Now sealers....Normally i use epoxy, but say if i were to two-tone a new car using the stock color as one of the colors. would i just wet sand the whole car, run my line, then base right over the wet sanded clear or should a sealer be used? i would think using a epoxy sealer, would just help intensify the tape line you will have. Thank you.

BarryK 06-22-2010 11:01 AM

I cannot answer stuff here about SPI.

What I was referring to on the 2K is use a good grade not a cheap grade, If you think "Joes auto parts" is a great grade because you like their spark plugs your in real trouble.

Use a majors good grade, not their low grade brand.
Yes primers have talcs in then but there are 1000's, maybe less of grinds and grades, not all are baby powder grade, thank God.

jeetkunedoground 06-22-2010 11:19 AM

DAMM!!! no wonder! Nason comes with an activator for the base paint =( and i didnt add it.....

Lesson learned activator for adhesion.

Hey Barry,

epoxy sealer will give me better odds, what do you , or you guys think of polyuroxy sealer hybrid anybody heard of it?

thanks in advance

mike

BarryK 06-22-2010 11:56 AM

Not really lession learned! When you go to a good grade base, then you learned your lession.

Everything is a hybrid, stick with proven stuff.

MouseFink 06-22-2010 12:14 PM

Top ten paint care tips
 
If you already have new windshield and a show winnng paint job and it is not especially chip resistant:

1.) Avoid high speed highway or heavy freeway traffic.
2.) When approaching an oncoming vehicle, brake or slow down and steer to the right as far as possible.
3.) Drive the vehcle only on Sunday mornings.
4.) Never tailgate.
5.) never drive in the "suicide lane" of a multi-lane freeway. (inside lane)
6.) Remove your belt, watch and rings when washing or working on the the car. Use fender covers. (I use furniture moving pads)
7.) Avoid truck routes.
8.) Avoid highway construction areas.
9.) Plan the route yu will take
10.) Check the weather radar and forecast to avoid rain showers along your route and at your destination. (for body off restorations)

panelwagon62 06-22-2010 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryK
I cannot answer stuff here about SPI.

What I was referring to on the 2K is use a good grade not a cheap grade, If you think "Joes auto parts" is a great grade because you like their spark plugs your in real trouble.

Use a majors good grade, not their low grade brand.
Yes primers have talcs in then but there are 1000's, maybe less of grinds and grades, not all are baby powder grade, thank God.


Ok, so when it comes to grades in talc, the finer grade they are the worse they are? I'm assuming its because they will absorbe moisture quicker? Trying to learn some technical aspects of it. Thanks

BarryK 06-22-2010 08:39 PM

Re the talcs, there is no way the customer will ever know whats in them, but there are many different grades and grinds with each of those grades, like the old heavy weight body filler vs the new filers, aka light weight.

With that said the better primers will have very little talc in them but may have a small amount of 2-4 different grades.
Instead of using the talc as fillers they will be resin rich and some may have nano additives in place of the talc as a filler. AKA, slang of mircopheres, be it glass or a mixture of two or three different sizes air filled beads.

The nano beads will do everything from acting as a volume filler to even in some cases, work as small roller bearings to make sanding easy, this allows you to use a mixture of better resins, that if used without the nanos would just be impossible to sand.

Back in the early 70's, Dupont had a state of the art primer, called Kolar or colar, touted as non shrinking and just state of art at that time, but you just could not sand it, that was before nano's came into play and the primer was a bust as just too far ahead for its time. Today you could make that same primer sand like butter and not compromise any of its non-shrinking properties.

Of course the other option is use a minor amount of a low grade resin and stuff the primer with a mixture of fine, medium and coarse talc and watch it soak up as it gets sun time.

panelwagon62 06-23-2010 05:43 AM

Ahhh I gotcha, now about the clears. You said every company has their higher end polyurethane clears which is what you want for quality, but take shopline for instance and their jc630 polyurethane clear. I know shopline is bottom of the barrel products but if its a polyurethane how does it rank anyway and what makes it different from other polyurethane clears? Thanks Barry!

BarryK 06-23-2010 05:56 AM

Can't say what I think here, or end up like Jon, asking for donations.

Sad but true there are no "Polyurethane police" and some companies are worse then others for BS,

Do your own testing. In a quart painters pail pour or leave one inch of mixed clear. Set on bench for month, take puck out of cup and leave for another month.

First week, if clear pulls away from side of cup, that is your shrinkage, a lot will crack in this time also, a sign of poor resin and perhaps cheap fillers to make clear look thicker. (ever noticed, how a cheap clear that is medium solids, looks thicker in can, then a high grade, High solids clear ???Wonder how the math works on that one?)
Some, first hour you pull out of cup, will crumble and fall apart.

A true poly, you can carry that puck around for years and even an inch thick, slightly bend, thicker harder it is to bend but you will see the difference.

Anything else stated is just pure BS and this industry is full of that.


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