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Old 10-14-2008, 09:48 PM
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What the ***** is wrong with my timing cover/ harmonic balancer!!!

Hey need lots of help here Ok so I have had a problem with timing my engine since I built it, I was under the impression that the line on my harmonic balancer and the aftermarket timing cover/ timing tab weren't a matched pair because when I shine the timing light on the scale hooked up to #1 wire, the line on the balancer appears almost 180* away from the scale!! Below is a picture I made of the balancer and where the line is in relation to the scale at idle. The red line in the pic is the line on the balancer and the blue line is approximately where my timing scale is.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...icbalancer.jpg

So today I decided to go buy a brand new balancer for a 1980 camaro 7" diameter figuring the line on the shell would be in a different location than the keyway when compared to the balancer I have on the engine now. Well I was wrong! They are both identical with the line on the outer shell being in the exact same damn spot!! Now my question is are my camshaft and crankshaft timed properly with the dots on the gears lining up? I am 120% sure they are as I quadruple checked this before putting this aftermarket timing cover on but tomorrow I will tear it all apart again to make sure because there is no other reason I can think of how my ignition timing would be 180* out (and the engine run) when the timing light IS HOOKED UP TO PLUG WIRE #1. Maybe it is this aftermarket timing tab that uses 2 of the cover bolts to hold it on, maybe I am thinking just maybe the manufacturer of this part is trying to screw over everyone who uses it on their SBC. The location of my timing tab (scale) in relation to the balancer (top being 12 oclock) is about 2 oclock. Is this where the scale is on a stock timing cover?? If not then at what approximate hour should the timing scale be at because in order for my engine to make any sense it would have to be around 8 o'clock and to time it I would have to jack up the front end of my car, crawl underneath and point my timing light at the scale. I always thought that on a sbc the timing scale was tacked onto the cover in the 2 o'clock position. Are all aftermarket timing tabs the same I mean do they all bolt onto the same place because there is only once place I can bolt mine on (the 2 oclock position) and have it line up with the balancer shell. I am just getting so frusterated with all of this stuff that should work out but never does. I mean a SBC harmonic balancer is a SBC harmonic balancer and a SBC timing tab is a SBC timing tab.......... SO WHY THE ******* DOESN'T MY **** ******* LINE ON MY SHELL LINE UP ANYWHERE CLOSE TO MY SCALE ARRRGGHHHH!!!

Anyways on that note I am getting too frusterated thinking about it all so any and all help is greatly appreciated here, Thanks to all of you!!

P.S.- I will be removing my cover tomorrow or the next day just to verify my crank to cam timing is correct!!

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Old 10-14-2008, 09:58 PM
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The Correct Timming mark on the balancer should be alined up almost straight with the key way... And the Key way on the crank should be centered with #1 Rod Throw.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:07 PM
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Is it possible that you have a crank that someone used in a blower application and added a second keyway, and your using the wrong key to install your balancer??

sam-missle
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:25 PM
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This might be a ridiculous question. Stay with me here.

Are you hooking the timing light up to the "right" front, or the "left" front of the engine? (sitting in the drivers seat)

Your "drawing" reminds me of a mistake I made years ago. This is why I ask.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:16 AM
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Balancer woes

Chevy used 3 different timing pointer locations,pre '69 models TDC was 2 degrees to the left of the key centerline,'69 and later have the TDC mark 10 degrees to the left of the keyway centerline '84 and later is at 12 o'clock on the damper .The aftermarket chrome bolt on pointers are for pre '69 only, nobody seems to make a bolt on pointer for '69 and later there are several things you can do, easiest is to use a 65-68 327 or 350 balancer,next you could degree the cam and remark tdc by using a timing tape but they usually will come off in time,or a good performance machine shop could degree your late balancer to the early marks,I would choose option #1
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:47 AM
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How come Summit Racing are selling timing pointers claming they fit all year of gen I small blocks?

I have a '93 model Gen I small block with the original timing pointer removed (because of short water pump). Does that mean I have to change to an older type harmonic balacer to be able get the timing right?

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but my question is perhaps of interest for the thread starter too...

Last edited by staleg; 10-15-2008 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 10-15-2008, 01:42 AM
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Timing Mark Location SBC

Timing Mark Locations for SBC. #1 plug wire is front left sitting in car.
http://www.chevytech.com/2c44o2.html

TIMING MARK CALCULATION
http://www.chevytech.com/2c44o3.html

Spark Plug Firing Order
http://www.chevytech.com/1c10o1.html

Last edited by SSedan64; 10-15-2008 at 01:46 AM. Reason: More Info
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam-missle
Is it possible that you have a crank that someone used in a blower application and added a second keyway, and your using the wrong key to install your balancer??

sam-missle
I have yet to see a 'blower' application crank without a 1/4" key for the blower pulley adapter. They have always been 'keyed' 180 degrees from the stock key.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:56 AM
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Try a different timing light. Do not remove the front cover. It's a waste of time. If the motor is running at all, then the cam timing is ok. Either your light has gone goo-goo or the ignition system you're using isn't compatible with the light.
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:06 AM
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I think as it`s already been mentioned that chevy used several different marking positions over the years. Some marks were at the 2 o clock and some were at the 12 o clock, if your using a balancer that used the 12 o clock then it`s gonna be out of whack considerably but not as far off as your showing which makes me think as tech said your possibly connecting to the wrong plug wire. 1st drivers side plug is number 1. If you have a 12 o clock balancer rather than replacing it I would simply get a proform balancer cover. It bolts to the balancer and reads off the 2 o`clock position. It also has the full degrees all the way up to 60 so you can`t go wrong setting the timing. It also looks nice which fills the bill. If your not connecting to the wrong plug wire then something else is out of whack, since I can`t see how it would run with the timing that far off. Remove the number 1 plug and get the piston to TDC on the compression stroke and check to see where your mark is on the balancer, you should be able to figure it out from there.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carsavvycook
I have yet to see a 'blower' application crank without a 1/4" key for the blower pulley adapter. They have always been 'keyed' 180 degrees from the stock key.
per the posters drawing his timing marks are 180 off.

sam-missle
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:20 AM
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Not using a power timing light dialed way out of range?
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:44 AM
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timing

Quote:
Originally Posted by sexypizzaman
Hey need lots of help here Ok so I have had a problem with timing my engine since I built it, I was under the impression that the line on my harmonic balancer and the aftermarket timing cover/ timing tab weren't a matched pair because when I shine the timing light on the scale hooked up to #1 wire, the line on the balancer appears almost 180* away from the scale!! Below is a picture I made of the balancer and where the line is in relation to the scale at idle. The red line in the pic is the line on the balancer and the blue line is approximately where my timing scale is.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...icbalancer.jpg

So today I decided to go buy a brand new balancer for a 1980 camaro 7" diameter figuring the line on the shell would be in a different location than the keyway when compared to the balancer I have on the engine now. Well I was wrong! They are both identical with the line on the outer shell being in the exact same damn spot!! Now my question is are my camshaft and crankshaft timed properly with the dots on the gears lining up? I am 120% sure they are as I quadruple checked this before putting this aftermarket timing cover on but tomorrow I will tear it all apart again to make sure because there is no other reason I can think of how my ignition timing would be 180* out (and the engine run) when the timing light IS HOOKED UP TO PLUG WIRE #1. Maybe it is this aftermarket timing tab that uses 2 of the cover bolts to hold it on, maybe I am thinking just maybe the manufacturer of this part is trying to screw over everyone who uses it on their SBC. The location of my timing tab (scale) in relation to the balancer (top being 12 oclock) is about 2 oclock. Is this where the scale is on a stock timing cover?? If not then at what approximate hour should the timing scale be at because in order for my engine to make any sense it would have to be around 8 o'clock and to time it I would have to jack up the front end of my car, crawl underneath and point my timing light at the scale. I always thought that on a sbc the timing scale was tacked onto the cover in the 2 o'clock position. Are all aftermarket timing tabs the same I mean do they all bolt onto the same place because there is only once place I can bolt mine on (the 2 oclock position) and have it line up with the balancer shell. I am just getting so frusterated with all of this stuff that should work out but never does. I mean a SBC harmonic balancer is a SBC harmonic balancer and a SBC timing tab is a SBC timing tab.......... SO WHY THE ******* DOESN'T MY **** ******* LINE ON MY SHELL LINE UP ANYWHERE CLOSE TO MY SCALE ARRRGGHHHH!!!

Anyways on that note I am getting too frusterated thinking about it all so any and all help is greatly appreciated here, Thanks to all of you!!

P.S.- I will be removing my cover tomorrow or the next day just to verify my crank to cam timing is correct!!
is the timing chain and gears set that you bought a universal set? I had the same problem with my engine when I got it running because of the guy putting it together didn't really know what he was doing. But, on the aftermarket timing sets there are two sets of dots on the timing gears. if you set it up on the wrong set of dots your timing mark on your balancer will be different. Mine was not even on my marker it was all the way at 7 o'clock.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staleg
How come Summit Racing are selling timing pointers claming they fit all year of gen I small blocks?

I have a '93 model Gen I small block with the original timing pointer removed (because of short water pump). Does that mean I have to change to an older type harmonic balacer to be able get the timing right?

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but my question is perhaps of interest for the thread starter too...
Sure they fit, they just won't line up with the marks properly thats the problem the thread starter has This problem crops up when a chrome or aluminum timing cover is used,if you stick with the original timing cover and pointer and balancer this is a non-issue.

Last edited by JeffB; 10-15-2008 at 10:08 AM. Reason: correction
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:38 AM
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What kind of light are you using?
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