Whats the difference in these heads??? - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2010, 09:26 AM
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That's what I was getting at to begin with,

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Old 08-09-2010, 10:04 AM
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There is a little bit more to running Vortec heads than just picking up an intake.

You have to use guide plates especially made for vortec heads or run self aligning rocker arms.

They need screw in studs installed, by a machine shop.

Depending on the springs you want/need to run, the spring pockets might need to be opened up.

The valve guides will possibly need to be cut for seals.

A set of aftermarket valve covers will be needed, maybe tall depending on the rockers you use.

The valve pockets just under the valve needs to be opened up to get full benefit of the far superior design of the head.

Is all that worth it? YES! Don't waste money on the old stuff unless you are restoring.

In my opinion, even with all the above, the money you will end up spending on the 291 heads will be more than you would spend on a Vortec setup. And be hp/tq up.

Did anyone mention the 291s will need all new hard seats?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2010, 10:21 AM
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There must be an echo in here. LOL Exactly what I am saying. I have pocket ported 041 heads on my engine. As soon as I can, I will be switching to production Vortecs or picking up some of the Bowtie Vortecs. Just not smart to put a bunch of $$$ into old heads unless you are bound to use them by racing association rules or, like said, you are doing a numbers correct restoration.
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdriv
There is a little bit more to running Vortec heads than just picking up an intake.

You have to use guide plates especially made for vortec heads or run self aligning rocker arms.

They need screw in studs installed, by a machine shop.

Depending on the springs you want/need to run, the spring pockets might need to be opened up.

The valve guides will possibly need to be cut for seals.

A set of aftermarket valve covers will be needed, maybe tall depending on the rockers you use.

The valve pockets just under the valve needs to be opened up to get full benefit of the far superior design of the head.

Is all that worth it? YES! Don't waste money on the old stuff unless you are restoring.

In my opinion, even with all the above, the money you will end up spending on the 291 heads will be more than you would spend on a Vortec setup. And be hp/tq up.

Did anyone mention the 291s will need all new hard seats?
Just grab the stock valve covers and self-aligning rocker arms to go with the heads. I bought OEM covers for mine, used, for $25. New OEM GM self-aligning rockers are $60. Valve spring change, about $75.
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:31 AM
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I heard these heads are a lot heavier than newer ones. What is the max 291's can be milled? What is the largest valves you can run? With enough work they may work better than vortecs depending on the application?
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:41 PM
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as others have said. The biggest size you really wanna go is 2.02 and the amount of money and the work involved in developing the 291 head is more oney and effort when a simple ride to the junkyard and geta set of vortecs they will out flow the 291s. Yes 291s can flow good. But it will take alot of moneya and time.
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbolover
... With enough work they may work better than vortecs depending on the application?
The problem is, unless you can do all the porting, and probably the machine work as well, you'll never come out ahead on the hp per $$ comparison.
Between the high swirl chambers and the flow of the Vortecs, the 291s just don't stand a chance in that comparison.
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nova327
The biggest size you really wanna go is 2.02
What is the biggest valve size that you can go though? And still have room for a proper valve job.


I agree Vortecs are a lot easier to make power with out of the box, but i can't see how these heads instantly turned to **** after the Vortecs came out. For a LONG time they were great; now they're not as great as some others but can't they still make some power when in the hands of the right person? I know a lot of classes don't allow Vortecs- then what?
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBCRMAN@aol.com
Problem with the 291's is they are forty+ years old.

I am doing a typical set right now. The customer paid $250.00 for them. They need valve job, guides, seats, mill, head bolt holes repaired plus he wanted 2.02-1.60 valves, screw in studs, guides cut for seals and clearance.

Thats better than $800.00 in a pair of $250.00 junk heads..
For that kind of price, I'll junk the heads and get brand new alum heads for the same price.
800+250 = $1050
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:04 PM
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C'mon. At one time cast iron log exhaust manifolds were the norm. Then somebody developed headers.

At one time, vacuum tubes were the norm, then transistors came out.

Yeah, the Vortecs turned the 291's to sh$t just like that in an apples to apples, punch for dollar spent. Turbolover, you seem to be missing the point here. Vortecs = More flow, more HP, more torque, less timing required to run vs. spending big bucks for porting old design heads with a disadvantageous combustion chambe just to MATCH what the vortecs will give you.
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:25 PM
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I agree the vortecs are better I just don't think 291's are useless. They put cars into the 10's twenty years ago I don't know why they can't do even better today. Comparing a set of track prepped 291's to stock vortecs my money is on the racing heads. And track takeoffs are fairly common at times thanks to them going to better heads. Unfortunately no one has done extensive testing on a comparison like this, at least that I know of.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2010, 01:42 PM
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If he's happy with what he can get out of a pair of 291, then I'm happy for him. But it's yet to be proven to me that, $$ for $$, they will be better, on the contrary, I've proven to myself on numerous occasions, that Vortecs just can't be beat, again, $$ for $$.
And I'm all about going fast for as little $$ as possible,
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:51 PM
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http://www.onedirt.com/tech-stories/...k-chevy-heads/

some good info here,,, build what you want but don't use the 882,,, IMHO vortec's come out ahead.
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickracer
If he's happy with what he can get out of a pair of 291, then I'm happy for him. But it's yet to be proven to me that, $$ for $$, they will be better, on the contrary, I've proven to myself on numerous occasions, that Vortecs just can't be beat, again, $$ for $$.
And I'm all about going fast for as little $$ as possible,
I think we all can agree with that, but what about when a ported set of camel humps with 2.08 valves and milled to 60cc's comes up on craiglist for 300 bucks? Seems.like in that case it may be the best bang for the buck.
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Old 08-09-2010, 02:39 PM
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You guys are arguing a moot point. He asked about 882's and 291's. Playing the vortec broken-record in this thread TOO will chase new members away. He already stated "this was the direction he's going". Just come out and say "The 291's are better between the two. Let us know how you do". End of story.
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