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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 02:46 AM
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Ok here is the way I and a lot of L.A painter here in L.A. that build nice lowriders and hot rods do large panels. First thing I do is put a guide coat if I see a lot of waves dents etc I skim coat the the area that need them. Make sure you use the good body filler and skim and guide coat and sand. Now if I get a dark spot and I mean dark where you can see the guide coat droplets I apply some glaze with a little extra fiberglass resin to make it extra thin. See the trick to blending a new coat is to make the last coat thinner and easier to sand. If you put body filler over body filler you will sand both coats at the same pace and same high so as the top goes down so will the first coat and you will never get nowhere.
After that i spray another coat of guide coat and recheck if i still have minor waves I then spray some pcl poly primer. I have a iwata with a 3.0 needle so i am a able to spray it nice and think and smooth. Apply guide coat and repeat atleast 4 times. That poly will fill the waves and you will save a lot of body filler sanding . I was shown this step by a old body man and i have never looked back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer
That's precisely what I'm afraid of; I've been down that road many times already by this point.

I should point out these pics are before the hood was skimmed. I had done some general filler work and then realized the entire hood was going to need skimmed.

In fact I actually said out loud to myself after feeling it 'dammit I'm going to have to skim the whole ****ing thing.'

Does anybody else talk to themselves when they work?

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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 06:11 PM
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ok, I took a stab at this for a few hours and am reporting back, though incredibly frustrated.

Starting with the good, I block early before the filler set up hard and it was awesome. Starting with 40 and moving to 80, it cut down in no time and all and was flat with the rest of the panel---this was with skimming in the area under the hood scoop that I originally left out before.

The problems--on the other side I took too long and it set up before I got to sanding it and sanded much more difficult and harder to get straight. it didn't cut down nice and flat immediately like the other side did.

More problems--

--I went to a bigger palette so I can mix more; this helped immensely, but I'm having a hard time getting a non-stop skim from the center crease of the hood to the side; my spreader runs out about 3/4 the way. This is where my problems arise because I have to finish out the skim and it's going to be higher or lower and I'll be chasing it the entire time.

--Second, I can only skim about a foot width at a time before I have to make more. By the time I have my last skim on my first skim at the back of the hood is already starting to set up.

To counter this I started mixing the filler with less hardener to give me more time. Then--because the weather ****ing sucks this time of year, it got cold outside in the span of about 30 minutes and now the entire skim on the one half of the hood I did is taking forever to set up. Around 5 the sun was beating down on the hood and it was nice and warm; the filler was setting up pretty quickly too. Not to mention the half of the hood looks terrible where I had to finish off a skim run where I ran out of filler.

It's my technique that's killing it here, I need to watch a bunch of videos on youtube of people skimming. I just want to burn this car.

I have yet to block it to see how it does; I'm waiting for it to set up more.

Oh yeah, and
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angel85lx
Ok here is the way I and a lot of L.A painter here in L.A. that build nice lowriders and hot rods do large panels. First thing I do is put a guide coat if I see a lot of waves dents etc I skim coat the the area that need them. Make sure you use the good body filler and skim and guide coat and sand. Now if I get a dark spot and I mean dark where you can see the guide coat droplets I apply some glaze with a little extra fiberglass resin to make it extra thin. See the trick to blending a new coat is to make the last coat thinner and easier to sand. If you put body filler over body filler you will sand both coats at the same pace and same high so as the top goes down so will the first coat and you will never get nowhere.
After that i spray another coat of guide coat and recheck if i still have minor waves I then spray some pcl poly primer. I have a iwata with a 3.0 needle so i am a able to spray it nice and think and smooth. Apply guide coat and repeat atleast 4 times. That poly will fill the waves and you will save a lot of body filler sanding . I was shown this step by a old body man and i have never looked back.
Thanks for the tips and advice. I didn't actually even see this response until now (didn't realize the thread turned over another page).
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 06:40 PM
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Wow. I feel you pain

Fist, let me warn you. If you have filler without enough hardener, get it off. Paint won't adhere to filler that is not properly hardened.

If you are only able to skim 1 foot at a time it appears you may be skimming it pretty thick. Also, there are some fillers that are not as creamy as others and are more difficult to skim in a good thin coat. I have never been able to skim a whole hood myself with one mix of filler. Maybe there are guys who can but I am not one of them.

At this point I believe you will first have to get the filler off of there that is not properly hardened. Next take your long block with good fresh 36 or 40 grit an block it back down carefully working your center peak. Then you can skim it again. I hate your day has been such a bust. If it is any consolation we have all been there.

John L
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:04 PM
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While John was typing his response, I was out blocking the one half of the hood I did.

There's three sections of the hood where I made different batches of the filler; the outer two were soft for good cutting while the middle batch was set up pretty hard so the sanding was uneven all the way across. Also due to the middle batch having more hardener, it was setting up almost too fast when I was applying it so it went on rough and terrible.

In short, this one half of the hood I was working on only got worse with the second skim. It's a disaster. At this point I only want to take every goddamn bit of it back off down to the epoxy and re-evaluate what I have. I could feel ripples with my hand but I have only made this thing worse by trying to skim coat. I probably should have just gone straight to spray poly in the first place.

John, I'm using Marson Platinum, not sure if you've ever used it or not. When I first started this car I had been using the cheapy 3M lightweight filler; it was pretty thick and not very creamy, but it had a lot of build. I went to the Platinum last year after reading a lot of positive things about it online and I think BarryK had originally suggested it to me. It feels as creamy as Rage.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 07:04 PM
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I feel your pain but the way you are doing it will never give you results u want. First if u still want to skim u need to learn how to mix faster and have every thing at hand. Don't mess with the hardener ratio instead add some fiberglass resin to thin it out that will add more spread time. Second don't try to make it nice and smooth and perfect will only take up spreading time. Lay it and keep moving that way u can cover more and apply the fallowing coat while it is still fresh not setting up which will not bond correctly with the new batch. I can explain better over the phone if u want PM your number


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer
ok, I took a stab at this for a few hours and am reporting back, though incredibly frustrated.

Starting with the good, I block early before the filler set up hard and it was awesome. Starting with 40 and moving to 80, it cut down in no time and all and was flat with the rest of the panel---this was with skimming in the area under the hood scoop that I originally left out before.

The problems--on the other side I took too long and it set up before I got to sanding it and sanded much more difficult and harder to get straight. it didn't cut down nice and flat immediately like the other side did.

More problems--

--I went to a bigger palette so I can mix more; this helped immensely, but I'm having a hard time getting a non-stop skim from the center crease of the hood to the side; my spreader runs out about 3/4 the way. This is where my problems arise because I have to finish out the skim and it's going to be higher or lower and I'll be chasing it the entire time.

--Second, I can only skim about a foot width at a time before I have to make more. By the time I have my last skim on my first skim at the back of the hood is already starting to set up.

To counter this I started mixing the filler with less hardener to give me more time. Then--because the weather ****ing sucks this time of year, it got cold outside in the span of about 30 minutes and now the entire skim on the one half of the hood I did is taking forever to set up. Around 5 the sun was beating down on the hood and it was nice and warm; the filler was setting up pretty quickly too. Not to mention the half of the hood looks terrible where I had to finish off a skim run where I ran out of filler.

It's my technique that's killing it here, I need to watch a bunch of videos on youtube of people skimming. I just want to burn this car.

I have yet to block it to see how it does; I'm waiting for it to set up more.

Oh yeah, and
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:10 PM
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Sho 'Nuff!! BTDT, and still go there from time to time.
Large panels can be a PITA, especially hoods. Try a '55 Chevy hood. Them things is flimsey, and flex with the slightest pressure.

I've been known to just bite th' bullett, and skim, mixing as many times as I have to, untill I have enough build on the entire area. Then go to blockin'.
It's not the fast way, but sometimes it's the only way.
If I get close, and am frustrated enough, I'll give it about 3 coats of Slick Sand, then block it from there.

Just don't give up. You'll get it.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 07:15 PM
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yeah, thanks everyone for letting my whine and being That Guy. I suppose it won't fix the low spots if I just back a dump truck over the hood right? Maybe a giant version of an English wheel?
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 07:23 PM
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Angel, Gamefarm, and I all agree. Tomorrow will be a better day. Hang with it. Stay with course paper until you get it worked back down and don't waste your time with dull paper.

John L
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John long
Angel, Gamefarm, and I all agree. Tomorrow will be a better day. Hang with it. Stay with course paper until you get it worked back down and don't waste your time with dull paper.

John L
+1 Keep yer paper sharp!!, requires less pressure to cut.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer
yeah, thanks everyone for letting my whine and being That Guy. I suppose it won't fix the low spots if I just back a dump truck over the hood right? Maybe a giant version of an English wheel?
Not trying to hijack the post,but one of my friends spent the better part of a day blocking and priming a 36 Ford hood,set it outside the garage in the sun,and proceeded to back his car over it.that was a costly mistake,36 Ford hoods don't grow on trees.!!!
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:48 PM
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Now that is tough. When I painted the hood for my 36 I had just finished buffing it, picked up one of the side panels and proceeded to drop it. Curled one corner pretty bad. Honest, those tears running down my face were from anger not being a baby.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 09:03 PM
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I'm not big on the fiberglass resin, did it a lot years ago but with the fillers of today, I don't believe it's needed. A nice filler like Evercoat Rage gold, does wonders. And for a skim coat, for that last skim coat the Rage Gold thinned with Everycoat "Glaze coat" or "Metal Glaze" (same stuff different color) you have a product that is much easier to sand than the resin reduced filler I use to use. Thinning the Rage with the Glaze Coat by the way is recommended by Evercoat, no junior chemist stuff here.

But running straight Glaze Coat is what I do for the skim coat.

And you don't need to get it all on one coat, that is way too difficult. I'm with John, I can't pull that off to save my life. What you so is spread it out just like painting, cover an area, clean up your board and mix up some more and spread it out going over the edge of the first application a little bit. When you spread it out thin the edges by applying more pressure with the spreader at the edge. Then the next application you go up over that edge that is very thin and apply the next application applying pressure so that edge is thin too. That way right at the point they meet there isn't too much build.

Brian
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:24 AM
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Don't beat yourself up to much like I said before I just did one of these same hoods not to long ago and I had a heck of a time getting it dead straight. It is a long flat hood that has a zero tolerance for ripples, the slightest low spot is really going to stand out. As far as trying to skim the whole side in one shot keeping it even all the way from front to back, you will run out of filler. What works is first run small skims in the opposite direction you are running your spreader. Say your skimming left to right, first lay down small batches top to bottom 5 or 7 inches apart, what this does is give you excess filler where you will otherwise run out of. Then you run your spreader the way you would normally and you will be able to now skim the whole side with one even coat, because you now have the filler in the areas that you would end up dry on. You should be able to do this fast enough where you won't have to worry about it setting up too fast. The other thing to remember is when you spread the filler in your original direction, is that you keep it pulled tight against the panel so that you don't end up with low spots where you appllied the first "batches" of filler. Hope all this makes sense to you.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 03:17 PM
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Well today (on the passenger's side half...the half that I really effed up yesterday with the second skim coat) I blocked, and I blocked, and I blocked, and blocked some more, and finally took basically the entire second skim coat off so everything is gelling. It's a lot better than it was.

I am fighting a few high spots. What happens is I tap it down with my slapper, only I go too far and make myself a low spot. I could FEEL a low spot, but my straight edge wasn't showing one. I KNEW it was there though because it felt too obvious. I guidecoated and changed the direction of my sand and the guide coat revealed the problem area. It's unfortunate that I made another bad spot but I felt victorious nonetheless that I made the bastard show itself.

As you stand at the front of the hood, on the passengers side about 3 inches to the left of the center ridge, alllll the way down the hood (from back to front) is a long streak of guide coat, about 1.5 inches wide that won't sand out, and I can feel this low spot when I run my hands across the panel from the side in to the ridge. It must have formed there as it was the end of my block stroke and is right before the crown of the hood at the ridge.

Is now the time where I thin down my Platinum with my Ez Sand and run it along that line--the entire way front to back--then cut before set up?
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