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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2008, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
The weights given on oils are arbitrary numbers assigned by the S.A.E. (Society of Automotive Engineers). These numbers correspond to "real" viscosity, as measured by several accepted techniques. These measurements are taken at specific temperatures. Oils that fall into a certain range are designated 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 by the S.A.E. The W means the oil meets specifications for viscosity at various low temperatures depending on weight, and is therefore suitable for Winter use. 5W is tested at -25C, 10W at -20C, 15W at -15C, and 20W at -10C.

The following chart shows the relationship of "real" viscosity to their S.A.E. assigned numbers. The relationship of gear oils to engine oils is also shown.


__________________________________________________ _____________
| |
| SAE Gear Viscosity Number |
| __________________________________________________ ______ |
| |75W |80W |85W| 90 | 140 | |
| |____|_____|___|______________|___________________ _____| |
| |
| SAE Crank Case Viscosity Number |
| ____________________________ |
| |10| 20 | 30 | 40 | 50 | |
| |__|_____|____|_____|______| |
__________________________________________________ ____________
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 36 38 40 42
viscosity cSt @ 100 degrees C

Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base(5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.

R

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2008, 04:55 PM
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Another thang I found to share.



http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html



R
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2008, 11:32 AM
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I'm still perplexed as to why folks equate high oil pressure with a healthy motor. As long as you have some, you know that there is enough oil flowing through the bearings to maximize the amount of space (liquids don't compress). If you have a lot of oil pressure, it just means there's a lot of oil trying to get to certain parts and it can't.

Using heavier oils when they're not needed to boost oil pressure seems counterintuitive to me, but maybe some guys have luck with it. Obviously if you're getting noise with a normal weight oil on a stock build bottom there are bearing problems. Its the fault of the motor, not the standard weight oil. That's not to say I wouldn't increase the weight of the oil too in order to counter some of the sheering force from the crank attacking the sloppy bearings, but I reiterate the noise is still not the "fault" of the oil. Heavy oils are a work-around, IMO.

K
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:25 PM
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There are definately issues with too much oil pressure, broken distributer drive gears and drive gear pins, twisted oil pump shafts, bushing wear in the distributer housing,(too much side load from driving the oil pump),

No oil at all getting to the bearings because the stuff is too thick to get picked up by the oil pump...

One time I tried running straight 50 weight in a cleveland motor with tight tolerances, started it up one morning and spun most of the crank and rod bearings within 3 minutes.

Later, mikey
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2008, 01:09 PM
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liquids do compress... I just had to get that out.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2008, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
liquids do compress... I just had to get that out.
Uh... what?

No they don't. that's why we use liquids for brake systems.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2008, 05:21 PM
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Hmm What a poser

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae15.cfm

And

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/eng99234.htm

And

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...8097.Ph.r.html

On the other side of the razors edge.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_liquid_be_compressed

And same place different answer

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_water_be_compressed.

Technically Yes Liquids can be compressed but While in layman's terms for relative thoughts you tend to think NO.

Man almost like politics!

Typically Hydraulics IE: Brakes systems The systems that make a Back Hoe bucket do the wonderful things that they do ...

I would say 99.99% of the time a mechanical failure {Pump Hoses structure }will occur before the liquid will compress

For every day thinking No you don't compress liquids for the Brownie thinking ..errr ... ummmm . technically yea...

Welcome to the world of Grey.

I think..

I thunked ..

I give.



R
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2008, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
liquids do compress... I just had to get that out.

no, they don't.

K
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2008, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cope
curtis73 i trust my life with my engine builder he is the best around here he has been at the same shope for 25 years owned it for 10 onley the best and smartest take there engines to him i will nerver take my engines anywhere else. i dident take it to some greasy floord machine shop i just laugh that u talk s*it about him.

i got his stickers all over my truck and everywhere i go people onley have good things to say when they see thoes stickers they know i dont mess around when it comes to my engines.

i allready contacted him to see what his opinion is just waiting to hear back. from now on im just going to contact him direct instead of takeing advice for someone online that i dont know squat
That is perfectly fine. I urge you to do what you think is best, but if one engine builder gives you a recommendation and a bunch of other reliable sources give you different information, I might start doubting the original builder's words instead of blindly praising him as an engine god.

But, its your engine, do as you please. I wasn't trying to ruffle feathers, but the bottom line is that you questioned the use of the oil in certain situations and turned to other experts for their opinion... and now you're insulting us for giving a different recommendation.

Relax, man.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2008, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-10
So 3 'n' 1 is an oil, but you wouldn't run that in an engine now, would you?

I could shoot holes through your diatribe, but I just don't feel like typing that much. In your single post, you have stepped on a lot of toes.

Put down the Car Craft Magazine, and back away.
Firstly, I don't read Car Craft, I build engines.

Secondly, if you get the time I'd love to hear your opinion. Part of the way this forum thing works best is by putting out the info, not just insulting a post.

I don't understand what you find so offensive. I merely stated that the proper oil weight is what you should run and more isn't better. If you disagree with that, step up and be counted.

I recall saying things like: "I suggest you use the broad knowledge from the forum members to determine your requirements,"..... "My subtle opinion (take it or leave it)".... and "PROPER is better." You consider that "stepping on toes"? I think I was pretty diplomatic.

Last edited by curtis73; 10-10-2008 at 05:42 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2008, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killerformula
no, they don't.

K
Actually, they do. Check your physics books.

Look under "compressibility of fluids".

Here is one that I found just by googling that term.

http://www.engineersedge.com/lubrica...ulic_fluid.htm

'nother one. With chinese algebra.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/bu...ity-d_585.html

It's not enough to worry about in an engine, as the pressures are so comparatively low that they will never reach the point where they will compress. Viscosity the important characteristic of oil .

It's a known fact that brake fluid compresses, silicone more than glycol based fluids. It compresses even more when water is absorbed.
http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/fluid.shtml

Later, mikey
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Last edited by powerrodsmike; 10-10-2008 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:06 AM
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In reality concrete is compressable too,

But in practicality....... it seems dog gone solid if you hit it with your face.

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2008, 12:53 AM
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curtis73 no beef man the funny thing is that i was asking when is it too cold to use 20/50w not what oil should i be using.

i do prais my engine builder he treats me vary well i wouldent say he is an engine god but the guy who tought him was.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:08 AM
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its cool... I just had trouble recommending when to switch from 20/50 if I couldn't understand why 20/50 was needed in the first place.
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Old 10-11-2008, 03:10 PM
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I'd say change when the cold starts are happening about 50* or less. That's about 20* lower than summer normal.
Then you have to know how hot the oil is getting to decide if 30 or 40 wt is too thin when the day heats up and the engine gets fully hot oil temperature. If you had an engine oil cooler that was thermostat controlled, all you would have to do is juggle the lower number for cold starts, since the HOT temp would always come out the same.

10w40 might be good.
Some new synthetics are 0w40, like Mobil 1 European formula (still SM rated though)
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