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Old 10-08-2008, 12:47 PM
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when is it too cold for 20/50

what degree would u say it would be to cold for 20/50 oil with winter sneeking up i forgot i have 20/50 in all my v8s
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:28 PM
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I guess the first question would be to determine why you are using 20/50 in the first place. Unless your engines are remarkably worn or were built with much larger tolerances, 5/30, 10/30, or 10/40 are almost always more than adequate.

I run 5/30 in the winter in PA and 10/30 in the summer

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Old 10-08-2008, 01:44 PM
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I'm running 20/50 too. If I use the lower viscosity's, I burn about a quart every 600 miles. The 20/50 goes about 8-9 hundred. Must have been a bad hone job on my engine. Burned "some" oil from day one.

It's still hot here but when the mornings are in the 40's, i'll go back to 10-30 or 10-40. Got about 3 cases of each! LOL


Mark
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:06 PM
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my race engine in my camaro was built with larger tolerances but my most fresh engines a mopar 366 i run 20/50 in because thats what my engine builder recomended
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:29 PM
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http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...ileage_usa.pdf

castrol 20w/50 says to use above 20 degrees.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cope
what degree would u say it would be to cold for 20/50 oil with winter sneeking up i forgot i have 20/50 in all my v8s
Here in Seattle, which admittedly is always wetter than Salem and is a bit warmer in winter and a little cooler in summer but pretty similar otherwise; I run 15W-40 Delo year round in my truck and Hog.

Bogie
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:59 PM
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On a loose engine you can run it almost year round. One of our customers is a cab and he runs 20-50 year round and typically gets 225 to 250K out of his cars, we have never changed an engine for him. Only once I remember he had trouble getting it to crank due to heavy oil and that was on a rare below zero morning here in MA.

Chet
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:17 PM
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I think you need to keep in mind exactly what you are running.

In my old trucks SBC I run straight 50.

I tried once to run 10~30 & was getting a hot knock & oil pressure drop.

I also crank them a bit before I stab the carb before the bust off.

They are no where near new

Newer engines have very tight specs. & would most likely the info would be found in the owners manual or you could contact the dealer.



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Old 10-08-2008, 05:37 PM
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I used to run 20-50 in my VW's they got hard to start when the temp was below 30. You could probably get away with colder temps and synthetic oil. But if your burning oil you dont want synthetic

Most oil manufactures have oil pour points somewhere, you may want to check them out. You also may want to do a freezer test for yourself. Pour a half inch of oil in a Dixie cup, put it in the freezer over night and see what you get. I was shocked how thick conventional 10-40 was.

Jordon
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:12 PM
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I've been running 20-50 year round since the first oil change after I installed the 302 in my old Ford, it has over 135000 miles on the motor now, with 35-40 psi hot at idle, and 60-70 psi hot on the freeway.

The bearings were on the loose side....0014" IIRC.. I remember that because after I measured, the clearance was the max as listed in the chiltons manual...My machinist told me that it would be ok. I guess he was right

I'm in middle California, by the coast..It gets cold, but not real cold. (not like Mass..I lived there once )

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Old 10-08-2008, 08:02 PM
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20/50 is too think for my blood

I run 15-40 Rotella in a stroker I built because my machinist advised me to. When I first start it I get way too much oil pressure (around 70 pounds at idle). If I rev it, I get above 80 pounds. I had to start it up after sitting outside in 20F temp. Not only did it crank real slow, it had lifter noise for about 90 seconds after starting because the oil was not getting through to properly lubricate the front of the motor.

Also when I was priming the bearings after initial assembly, I used a drill and was surprised how much effort the higher RPM took. That is a lot of resistance. I have normal Chevy tolerances (.002-.004).

Once I get a little heat in the motor I have normal pressure 20 @ low idle and 40-50 @ 2800RPM.

I am convinced that thick oil is bad for cold temperatures at start up. I also will never use a "high pressure" pump again. A normal pressure range is fine. Anything more than that is just wasted HP.

Keep in mind that engines have thermostats, so they run at the same temperature in the winter as they do in the summer. It is just the startup that requires the right viscosity to avoid oil starvation.
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:00 AM
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Ok... answers all over the board here.

Oil is one of those things that everyone seems to have experience with because their car ran for a few miles on a certain oil. I'll reduce it to something simple that I think we can all agree on...

What an engine requires is about 10 psi per 1000 rpms. In practice, most engines will produce more than that at hot idle, but you need to have at least that much at redline. The way it usually works out is this: Most properly done fresh rebuilds should run at 20-ish psi at hot idle and no more than 60-70 at redline (provided you aren't spinning past 6000-7000 rpm). Cold idle SHOULD NOT exceed 80-ish psi. Above that point, the bypass valve opens and starts pushing unfiltered oil throughout the engine. Its typical for a new build to show 70 psi cold (fast) idle, but any more is a waste.

Engine oil thickness has nothing to do with protection. That is to say that more isn't better. PROPER is better. If your engine was built to use 10/30 and you put 20/50 in it, then you can expect rather severe oil starvation at cold startup, and excessive oil pressure during hot running. Both of those situations can cause engine damage.

If you REALLY want to know what oil weight to use, install a good oil pressure gauge in a port that is as close to the oil pump as possible. Your target should be 15-20 at hot idle and 60 at hot redline (or whatever your redline is divided by 10). Look for 60-ish at cold idle. A little more is OK provided it falls between the min and max for hot operation. Anything more than 70-80 psi at cold idle is ridiculous and can actually turn a cheap oil filter into a mangled piece of shrapnel. The other important thing about using oil that is too thick is that it takes longer for it to "thin out" to a point where the bypass valve closes and starts sending oil through the filter. The extra thickness you think is providing more protection is actuall killing things because its spending much more time bypassing the filter.

The other thing that really should be examined is why a Mopar V8 street engine was designed with tolerances to use 20w50 oil. Either your builder was lying to you or you need a new builder. Its not the end of the world, but loose tolerances don't really help you on the street. You also have to understand that a fair amount of machinists might be masters of the build, but might not know squat about what their work means on the street. The bottom line is that he did one of two things; 1- built a mopar with loose enough tolerances that it needs 20w50, or 2- built a stock-tolerance mopar and then recommended the wrong oil. Either way, he isn't to be trusted. Not busting chops, but 20w50 is REALLY thick and the need for it on the street (or street/strip) is just not necessary. My last build done by a machine shop was a shortblock 468 BBC with flat top pistons. The builder recommended Dart's new 315cc heads and a bracket race cam with 256 degrees duration... on an engine that he knew was for my 1-ton truck that I was building to tow 10,000 lbs. He knew his machine work and was good at it, but how it translated to the vehicle... he was clueless.

I suggest you use the broad knowledge from the forum members to determine your requirements, not a single machinist who might or might not know the proper things. I think back to the first two engines I had built. I remember them like yesterday. If I knew then what I knew now, I would have run to another builder. I won't say I'm an expert, but when you combine all the recommendations from the experts here on the forum you might be able to add that to the advice you got from the builder and come up with a more logically derived solution.

My subtle opinion (take it or leave it) is that an engine built for street, strip, weekend warrior, cruiser, or anything making more than about 9" of idle vacuum (at proper tune) doesn't need anything but stock tolerances and a good stock or high volume oil pump. That applies to 95% of American V8s. If you're getting into things like many German engines, air cooled engines, or marine engines, that's a different story.

Last edited by curtis73; 10-09-2008 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:48 AM
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Here the theroy about the numbers on the Oil.
First Number stand for Tempature .
Second number stand for Vistocity.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:19 PM
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curtis73 i trust my life with my engine builder he is the best around here he has been at the same shope for 25 years owned it for 10 onley the best and smartest take there engines to him i will nerver take my engines anywhere else. i dident take it to some greasy floord machine shop i just laugh that u talk s*it about him.

i got his stickers all over my truck and everywhere i go people onley have good things to say when they see thoes stickers they know i dont mess around when it comes to my engines.

i allready contacted him to see what his opinion is just waiting to hear back. from now on im just going to contact him direct instead of takeing advice for someone online that i dont know squat
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis73
Engine oil thickness has nothing to do with protection. That is to say that more isn't better.

So 3 'n' 1 is an oil, but you wouldn't run that in an engine now, would you?

I could shoot holes through your diatribe, but I just don't feel like typing that much. In your single post, you have stepped on a lot of toes.

Put down the Car Craft Magazine, and back away.
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