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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2008, 01:01 PM
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Last iron headed Ford Hobby stock pulled 690 hp.Now this is with over 400 inches with Dart block and m351 heads but not really to wild he only had to turn in the mid 6000 range for this power level.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2008, 04:56 PM
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I'm going to go on record as saying there full of ****tzs......A 3K 500hp small block Chevy is simply junk rotating for a short while, and it won't make 500hp !! Get real, I build Ford Mod Motors, and do everything myself, with the exception of the machine work. I know Ford's cost more to build, but there isn't anyway 3 grand would even touch one, of-coarse mine do last for many thousands of miles, not just 1 or 2 passes down the track.

Think about it ? ? ? I know it causes some people a head ache, but machine work alone runs about $400-750, depending on whats needed. Any small block looking to make a HEALTHY 500HP should have a Forged crank, pistons and "I" or "H" Beam rods. These three items are will over $1800.00, alone ! A good Carb is another $575-800.00, Figuring everything on the low side, that puts us at $2775.00 already, and that's with a free block. You still have heads, valves, springs, cams, rings, timing components, gaskets, oil pan, pump, and so on.

Like I stated earlier, the web is a great place to spread your crap.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2008, 05:52 PM
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just for reference...
http://competitionproducts.com/prodi...er=BPEBP3838CT

minus carb and other acessories though... so probably around $6,700 with everything...
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2008, 06:47 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yknot
I'm going to go on record as saying there full of ****tzs......A 3K 500hp small block Chevy is simply junk rotating for a short while, and it won't make 500hp !! Get real, I build Ford Mod Motors, and do everything myself, with the exception of the machine work. I know Ford's cost more to build, but there isn't anyway 3 grand would even touch one, of-coarse mine do last for many thousands of miles, not just 1 or 2 passes down the track.

Think about it ? ? ? I know it causes some people a head ache, but machine work alone runs about $400-750, depending on whats needed. Any small block looking to make a HEALTHY 500HP should have a Forged crank, pistons and "I" or "H" Beam rods. These three items are will over $1800.00, alone ! A good Carb is another $575-800.00, Figuring everything on the low side, that puts us at $2775.00 already, and that's with a free block. You still have heads, valves, springs, cams, rings, timing components, gaskets, oil pan, pump, and so on.

Like I stated earlier, the web is a great place to spread your crap.
Anyone who wastes time on ford Mod motors either is a ******* or a guy who just does it to be different- they are a money pit.

To build a 3G 500 horse short block you need a donor Vortec 350 with all the accessories- $500 for a low mile one. A solid cam with EDM lifters- $170. A Set of Speed Pro forged pistons- $350. A used holley 750 and a rebuild kit- $125. Victor Intake- $200. MSD dizzy- $250, ARP rod bolts, head studs, larger valves, valve springs, main studs, and rocker arms- $800, rings, bearings, and gaskets- $300, and machine work. Without the machine work you have a total of $2995. which leaves $5 for engine paint.

Machine work will probably tack on another $900 though- unless you do it yourself, which isn't necessarily asking a lot if you find a low mile short block which just needs a hone and know a guy with a valve machine (I did two sets of my own heads so far).

And a stock crank can take 500 horse all day, and PM rods can too.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2008, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnym17
It is actually pretty easy to build 1.freshly bored 350 .030 (tourque plate honed if possible).2 .Speedway motors or Day motorsports Rotating kit including cam and lifters.(Around 400.00to 450.00.) Comp will need be around 12. to 13.5 to 1.3.Set of iron eagle platnum 215cc or Eq cylinder heads equivalent .Here is where the money comes in Well prepped carb for your fuel of choice(alky most prevalent).Exellent ignition system.= 550 hp all day long (and these are the backmarkers)For U.M.P or a.m.r.a we will step up somewhat 406 -dart block, 215cc Iron eagles or aluminum depending on budget, Forged pistons and crank (claims very rare) custom roller cam on gas .Last one put out over 630 hp from 5500 thru 7200 rpm peak with a board flat tourque curve.

Rotating assy. 400,,,the Platinum heads alone are 1000 pr.,,,,excellent ign. 500.,,,,well prepped carb 500,,,,intake man. 200,,, machine the block will at least take up the rest of the budget and still no timing chain, t.c. cover, oil pump, pan, water pump, balancer,,,,,well I could keep going but you all know what it takes.
Once you throw in the Dart block ($2,000) then were not talking a budget build anymore.
Maybe all this can be found on e-bay for 1/2 price?????
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2008, 10:54 PM
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Lots of things are easy, until you try to actually do it.

How long do you think valve springs last in a 500+HP 6500 rpm SBC engine?

there is an unfortunate truth:
GOOD FAST CHEAP - pick two
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2008, 06:23 AM
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All I know is I have done it, It is done all the time in circle track racing again as I stated over and over getting the power is not hard the longevity and streetability is.Just because some are incapable of making power does not mean others aren't. The heads are around 850.00 complete, short block kit machined and ready to go in the 1200 to 1500 range.Again these are claimer motors high dollars can't be spent on the shortblock due to claim rules.This thread and some comments are starting to remind me of guys I have seen at the strip this year in my first year back messing with drag cars.guys buying brodix heads ,roller cams and dominators barely beating an old pos with double humps and hyd cam.Keep reading hot rod you will be Bill Jenkins in no time.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2008, 06:44 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Yea, most of these guys just know what they read in ads, an I really can't blame them, it takes much more effort to find some unbiased by the numbers info, especially when you start looking at doing things on a budget. Circle track racers are IMO the best place to go to look for power on the cheap. They spend less on their engines than many of the guys here spend on their street engines- and they make more power. When you switch to street from the track sometimes you need to bump the compression down a bit, or the cam duration, or just run with steep gears. As long as you run good maitenance on your car thoguh and use the best oil you can find along with excessive cooling capacity these engines can actaully run pretty well.

A lot of these racers run stock cranks, stock rods, stock blocks, modified stock heads, modified stock intakes, and modified stock carbs- yet they still put down great power and last a season or two- why ignore that?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2008, 01:37 PM
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It's like I said the compression is the biggest factor against streetable performance.But in reality you only lose 4% power per point so with a typical claimer build at streetable comp. you should still be able to get close to 480 and you won't miss it on the street.The biggest problem out there now is people reading rags thinking you have to have all aftermarket stuff to make power and it just ain't so.Most of it is simply advertising Think of it this way if Hot Rod told you that with a head and cam swap plus intake and carb etc.you could end up close to 500 hp they would be out of business they have to sell eagle cranks and rods, scat etc.they get paid well to promote msd as,which is a fine setup but is not needed on most builds a basic hei with a recurve and decent coil will work as well 99% of the time.If stock stuff was junk would gm have been able to warranty the high winding engines of the 60's? They knew full well the stuff was being raced every weekend and still warranted the ocassional failure. Sure there are options that are better out there but you have to spend some major coin for it. Oh yeah in answer to the ? of how long valve springs last at 6500 in a small block I don't know ,don't usually let em idle that much.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2008, 01:49 PM
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I'll ask again. How long do cheap valve springs last in a 500+ HP 6500 RPM SBC?

A claimer circle track engine has how many hours on it at tear down?

If you two have it all figured out, start building and selling them..You should make millions.
How long of a warranty are you putting on your new $3K 500 HP street monsters?

I'll be waiting.................
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2008, 02:18 PM
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I wonder how many (actually I have a good idea) of these 3000 buck, 500 horse small-blocks have never SEEN a dyno, and if they did, they went on a 100 HP diet.......





tom
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2008, 05:42 PM
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I would be happy with just a set of $3000.00 heads....
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2008, 05:54 PM
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Here is an actual big dollar chevy build... http://www.sonnysracingengines.com/sar932.html

he has some for the bargin hunters also... http://www.sonnysracingengines.com/sar555.html
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2008, 09:24 PM
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That flow bench is pretty cool. Not sure how well it works but its better than porting by eyeball alone.

Like I said it is possible but most people don't have the tools/knowhow to do it.

Most people don't have these. The guy I know who did it his dad owns a hotrod shop. Average joe in his garage like me can only go so far without blowing a bit of cash.

Although I would like to try it and I do have a 2 bolt 350 block lying around I got for free. Its the machine work that kills a guy though.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2008, 05:03 AM
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most change valve springs at least every season, normally after 2500 to 3000 laps.Depends on cam profile as far as selling them why bother they already do check Day motorsports, Speedway etc.Oh yeah you show up in this area with only 400 hp you better be driving the pushtruck.You guys keep missing the cylinder heads and cam make the power the shortblock is just a pump.Why is it you have no problem believing gm can get 430hp with fast burn heads ,9 to 1 comp and a wimp cam but don't believe better heads and cam can't go 500 with compression?No where in this dicussion did anyone say mild mannered and streetable I think I said the opposite in my first post.Also to those who keep adding parts to get above the 3000.00 total how many high dollar engines come with ignition systems etc? generally just a long block.
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