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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2008, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekg383
People say they can build a 500+ horse small block for somewhere in the neiborhood of 3g.
If so why doesn't everone do that
This may not have been the thust of your question, but one main reason people don't do it is application. A 500 hp small block means some pretty serious street compromises. It probably means not enough vacuum for power brakes, it will take a butt-load of tuning to get it right, it will require high octane fuel, and get terrible gas mileage. The vehicle will need different rear gears, stall converter, probably a stronger axle, and wheel/tire upgrades to be able to get traction. Its also not a wise choice for something like a truck or other heavy car that needs the extra low-end torque to get things moving.

Just because you can make 500 doesn't mean crap if it happens at an RPM that is useless to the vehicle. Its not just the budget of the engine build, its the thousands of dollars associated with matching vehicle components.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2008, 07:34 PM
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Wow, that's interesting.......because I like Small Block Ford engines, the 4.6 and 5.4L in particular, that makes me a Jack azzz. Sorry....you don't like them, but fact is, they are the most reliable, highest HP, modern engine available (obviously not including any exotic). I have built 4.6L engines that made well over 2,000hp and live to do it again and again. While those are very special and not the norm, I do build very nice 4.6L , mainly the 4 valve variety, that make over 700 hp all day and get 23 miles to the gallon in a 3200lb sedan. I understand why most don't build a mod motor, they are new, you would have to read up on them, there isn't alot of people that build them and they are very high tolerance motors, which means very accurat measurement's. I hope you find the time to take it upon yourself to lear more about this engine, they are a real blast to work on.
Also, I have a 4.6L DOHC, 4-valve supercharged engine in my '33 tudor sedan.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2008, 08:44 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yknot
Wow, that's interesting.......because I like Small Block Ford engines, the 4.6 and 5.4L in particular, that makes me a Jack azzz. Sorry....you don't like them, but fact is, they are the most reliable, highest HP, modern engine available (obviously not including any exotic). I have built 4.6L engines that made well over 2,000hp and live to do it again and again. While those are very special and not the norm, I do build very nice 4.6L , mainly the 4 valve variety, that make over 700 hp all day and get 23 miles to the gallon in a 3200lb sedan. I understand why most don't build a mod motor, they are new, you would have to read up on them, there isn't alot of people that build them and they are very high tolerance motors, which means very accurat measurement's. I hope you find the time to take it upon yourself to lear more about this engine, they are a real blast to work on.
Also, I have a 4.6L DOHC, 4-valve supercharged engine in my '33 tudor sedan.

There are people like yourself who do it for brand loyalty or because its new and different, but given the same amount of investment the GM LS series can easily surpass the output of the ford mod series and you're also able to match the mod motors capabilities with many foriegn engines of smaller displacement.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to do something because its different, hell that's most of the fun of hotrodding. But if you want the best power per dollar GM has the market cornered.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2008, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
But if you want the best power per dollar GM has the market cornered.

Of course, Ford is kicking GMs butt in the pony car category right now.

Lets not get into the Ford vs. GM thing in this thread.

A lot of 450 hp engines will out-horse 500 hp engines in street cars 'cause they are more reliable and easy to tune for the average hot rodder.

tom
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2008, 11:42 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machine shop tom
Of course, Ford is kicking GMs butt in the pony car category right now.

Lets not get into the Ford vs. GM thing in this thread.

A lot of 450 hp engines will out-horse 500 hp engines in street cars 'cause they are more reliable and easy to tune for the average hot rodder.

tom
GM doesn't have a current pony car, though their trucks make more power than ford's mustangs...

It'd be like saying ford doesn't do as well in the roadster class... What do they have to compete with the Sky or the Solstice?

I guess you could compare the Corvette to the Mustang, I know Ford enthusiasts would cringe at the idea, and yes the vette does cost a little more, but it also performs better in every way.

I'm not saying all ford's are bad, they make a nice sedan, but they're not the competetive performers they once were.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2008, 02:29 PM
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I think what this thread has boiled down to is this:

500 horses on 3g CAN be done, although there is definite compromises.

Streetability.
Quality of some parts,,,probably pushing some parts to the limit,,,and I know that can be argued.
Choices of some parts,,,no hyd. roller cams or aluminum heads.
How you get your parts,,,can't buy it all out of a magazine.
Weight savings,,, iron vs aluminum.
You need know how and available tools for machining and flow testing or know cheaper machine shops than I do.

Expensive parts do have their benefits,,,you typically get looks and performance. Parts engineered for performance can be pushed further and should last longer under extreme conditions.

And if your wanting it all,,,streetability, good looks, high horsepower AND torque, and long lasting performance with little maint. you'll spend the big $$$
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2008, 02:56 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekg383
I think what this thread has boiled down to is this:

500 horses on 3g CAN be done, although there is definite compromises.

Streetability.
Quality of some parts,,,probably pushing some parts to the limit,,,and I know that can be argued.
Choices of some parts,,,no hyd. roller cams or aluminum heads.
How you get your parts,,,can't buy it all out of a magazine.
Weight savings,,, iron vs aluminum.
You need know how and available tools for machining and flow testing or know cheaper machine shops than I do.

Expensive parts do have their benefits,,,you typically get looks and performance. Parts engineered for performance can be pushed further and should last longer under extreme conditions.

And if your wanting it all,,,streetability, good looks, high horsepower AND torque, and long lasting performance with little maint. you'll spend the big $$$
you'll USUALLY spend the big $$$
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2008, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
GM doesn't have a current pony car, though their trucks make more power than ford's mustangs...

It'd be like saying ford doesn't do as well in the roadster class... What do they have to compete with the Sky or the Solstice?

I guess you could compare the Corvette to the Mustang, I know Ford enthusiasts would cringe at the idea, and yes the vette does cost a little more, but it also performs better in every way.

I'm not saying all ford's are bad, they make a nice sedan, but they're not the competetive performers they once were.
I was referring to this ill-thought-out statement:

"Anyone who wastes time on ford Mod motors either is a ******* or a guy who just does it to be different- they are a money pit."

That was just ignorant.

You missed my point on the pony car. GM ain't got one.

That's my point.

tom
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