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Old 11-05-2008, 09:08 PM
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Why Big $$$ Build?

People say they can build a 500+ horse small block for somewhere in the neiborhood of 3g.
If so why doesn't everone do that and even more concerning why did I spend.........I'd rather not say at this point

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Old 11-05-2008, 09:18 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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because most people do not have the time nor talent to do that. I can show you a LOT of examples of people who do it, but its done with their own port work on the manifold and heads, careful blueprinting, and very meticulous parts selection. Still a Vortec headed 350 can be built for less than 3G's and make 500+ hp on pump gas, a 400 would make it even easier.
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
because most people do not have the time nor talent to do that. I can show you a LOT of examples of people who do it, but its done with their own port work on the manifold and heads, careful blueprinting, and very meticulous parts selection. Still a Vortec headed 350 can be built for less than 3G's and make 500+ hp on pump gas, a 400 would make it even easier.
Is 500 the extreme for that kind of build and will it last?
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:34 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Its not too extreeme, and it will last as long as you have it tuned right. They're not super streetable though and they peak out at 6500 RPM or even a little higher.

Another option is to do a junkyard turbo build on a good running small block, or slapping on a 177 miniblower kit. Both require finding a low mile small block, but they can be done.
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:45 PM
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you know I've read some pretty amazing things on AFR's website... they have a 350 build on there with a ZZ4 short block and AFR 195 cc heads (I think that's right, too lazy to double check but that's why I'm posting so you can go check ) but anyway it makes like 520 or so HP, that engine will probably be in the $5500 range carb to pan though.

500 hp for $3,000, it can be done if you have some parts 'laying around' or if you start from scratch a little swap meet action is necessary. I'm sure it can be done though.

Reliability? Sure, I mean it's probably not gonna be a 200,000 mile wonder but I would assume that under a normal hot rodders right foot you'd get 80-100K out of it.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:00 AM
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I know someone who built a 500 HP 350. Ported his own heads and all. Funny thing, his dad owned a hotrod shop and he had a flow bench to do his own porting. Without a flow bench I suppose a guy can read magazines and get lucky but when you have access to this tools it can all be cheap.

Also I have seen lots of these magazine articles where they pick up parts off whatever website for cheap. One they picked up a whole shortblock for under 4 grand. Funny thing, I went on the exact site the mentioned (the article was 2 years old though) the cheapest short block I found comparable to what they got was like 6
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:02 AM
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It is not that easy to build 500 HP small blocks and for 3000, LOL.
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:18 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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6G's for a shortblock! You must be looking at some serious power numbers. Even $g's on a typical NA street shortblock is a little high.
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:23 AM
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Why big $$$ build

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevyThunder
I know someone who built a 500 HP 350. Ported his own heads and all. Funny thing, his dad owned a hotrod shop and he had a flow bench to do his own porting. Without a flow bench I suppose a guy can read magazines and get lucky but when you have access to this tools it can all be cheap.

Also I have seen lots of these magazine articles where they pick up parts off whatever website for cheap. One they picked up a whole shortblock for under 4 grand. Funny thing, I went on the exact site the mentioned (the article was 2 years old though) the cheapest short block I found comparable to what they got was like 6

If any one is interested in doing porting work check this link ,if you already have a vac source it can be built for less than 50 bucks,and either buy the cal tool ($30) or make it your self.I built one similar to this in my kart engine years and it works very good.
http://www.gofastnews.com/board/tech...low-bench.html

Sorry not trying to hijack this thread,was reading posts and saw this post and thought I would pass this on.
Kenny

Lost your job yet?
Keep buying foreign.
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:26 AM
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The 500 hp is not the hard part, the being able to be tame enough for the street and practical is.It is done all the time in imca mods. Iron eagle platnums, good solid cam and 12.5 to 13.5 to compression.Easy 550 hp.But these would never be a practical street engine 1500 rpm idle, race fuel or alky to run on. When you have to run on pump gas and idle at a reasonable speed and have good lowend it gets much more difficult.
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:58 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnym17
The 500 hp is not the hard part, the being able to be tame enough for the street and practical is.It is done all the time in imca mods. Iron eagle platnums, good solid cam and 12.5 to 13.5 to compression.Easy 550 hp.But these would never be a practical street engine 1500 rpm idle, race fuel or alky to run on. When you have to run on pump gas and idle at a reasonable speed and have good lowend it gets much more difficult.

Which is why you switch to ported Vortecs, 11:1 (some go 10:1) compression, a solid cam, and a ported AirGap or a Victor manifold. Most of the guys that do these budget builds are centered around IMCA or some other circle track racing- there's a lot to be learned there.
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:37 AM
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Agreed we have proven over and over that stock rod cast crank engines with hyper pistons can live at 550 hp and 7500 rpm.And solid cams can make serious power and live. It isn't done by choice usually but because rediculous $500.00 claim rules on the engine make springing for the good stuff unreasonable.And roller cams have been ilegal in imca for a few years now so we do what we have to to run. You would be surprised at how many Autozone Remaned 400's with dished pistons have the guts run out of em every week.The surprising part is how well they live.
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:46 AM
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I agree with Rick, this is some pretty wishful thinking going on here. Guys have been building small blocks for 50 years now. IF there was a reliable way to get 500 horse out of a smallblock for 3000 bucks everybody would have done it by now. The problem is no matter what you do you need to spin that motor up pretty high to get 500+ horse, and that's really going to cut down on reliability (especially with sub 3000 dollar parts).

I'm sure a friend, or a friends dad, or some guy who really knows how to port, or a website or hotrod magazine has done it. Fact is when you get it in your garage and its probably the first motor you're going to build, things don't add up quite so easily.

Why worry about a stupid number? Pick out some practical parts for your budget, do some research and build a nice street motor that will last for a while and turn some tires over on a Friday/Saturday night. You'll probably end up with a stroker motor with horsepower somewhere in the 400 range that will last and you'll be happy with.

Just my .02-

K
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:53 PM
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I guess I can see where your coming from. I spent $980 on block, machine work, and ARP main studs....another 1800 on a rotating assy....and thats basicly just the short block (minus the cam & lifters and timing chain) for 3g.
If you used basicly an old stock short block, plus all the belt drive accessories, an old distrubtor, and a set of old headers you also had layin around, and spent your 3g on head work, fresh bearings, rings and gaskets, a solid cam & lifter kit, a matching intake and carb, and the other little misc. things you may need,,,,,then yea I could see that.
Starting w/ nothing and having nada layin aroung,,,, I don't think so
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:56 PM
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It is actually pretty easy to build 1.freshly bored 350 .030 (tourque plate honed if possible).2 .Speedway motors or Day motorsports Rotating kit including cam and lifters.(Around 400.00to 450.00.) Comp will need be around 12. to 13.5 to 1.3.Set of iron eagle platnum 215cc or Eq cylinder heads equivalent .Here is where the money comes in Well prepped carb for your fuel of choice(alky most prevalent).Exellent ignition system.= 550 hp all day long (and these are the backmarkers)For U.M.P or a.m.r.a we will step up somewhat 406 -dart block, 215cc Iron eagles or aluminum depending on budget, Forged pistons and crank (claims very rare) custom roller cam on gas .Last one put out over 630 hp from 5500 thru 7200 rpm peak with a board flat tourque curve.
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