[T-bucket23]

Originally Posted by shine

the coil is there for two reasons. one it kills the vibration which in time will crack a line, two it makes it much easier and faster to connect the lines without using a flex line.

This is what we were told back when I was in tech school.

[malc]

I was at a friend´s garage today and we were looking at his 3rd Gen Pontiac´s motor.
As he is a tech guy at VW´s sister firm here Seat, I asked him why the coiled brake pipes, as per his Pontiac´s master cylinder/proportioning valve.
He told me it was to curb vibration and as a cooling aid for the pipes which were for the front discs, the rear connection does not have this.
The idea is, the front brakes, which are close, get hot and can heat the fluid up to the brake proportioning valve, if the line were just straight and 90º the heat could cause it to buckle, so the coil takes it better without distortion.
He also added that he has seen coils off the rear discs as well to dissipate heat without distortion to the brake line there.

[66GMC]

Originally Posted by malc

I was at a friend´s garage today and we were looking at his 3rd Gen Pontiac´s motor.
As he is a tech guy at VW´s sister firm here Seat, I asked him why the coiled brake pipes, as per his Pontiac´s master cylinder/proportioning valve.
He told me it was to curb vibration and as a cooling aid for the pipes which were for the front discs, the rear connection does not have this.
The idea is, the front brakes, which are close, get hot and can heat the fluid up to the brake proportioning valve, if the line were just straight and 90º the heat could cause it to buckle, so the coil takes it better without distortion.
He also added that he has seen coils off the rear discs as well to dissipate heat without distortion to the brake line there.

No offense intended, Malc, but the "distortion to the brake lines" theory doesn't hold a whole lot of water with me.

Here are the Dry boiling point and Wet (3.7% water) boiling point for brake fluids:

DOT 3: 205 °C (401 °F) / 140 °C (284 °F)

DOT 4: 230 °C (446 °F) / 155 °C (311 °F)

DOT 5: 260 °C (500 °F) / 180 °C (356 °F)

DOT 5.1: 270 °C (518 °F) / 190 °C (374 °F)

I will concede that steel (alloys) DO begin to lose strength at much lower temperatures than their approximate melting point of 1,370°C (2500°F) , as made evident by the collapse of the World Trade Center.

"Steel can be soft at 538°C (1,000°F) well below the burning temperature of jet fuel."

The "tongue-in-cheek" or "I heard" remarks that inevitably work their way into conversations like this can be taken (and quoted) as fact.
(The good old "If I read it on the internet, it has to be true." syndrome. Discuss this phenomenon with your favorite Mechanic, Partsman, or Doctor.)

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by malc

I was at a friend´s garage today and we were looking at his 3rd Gen Pontiac´s motor.
As he is a tech guy at VW´s sister firm here Seat, I asked him why the coiled brake pipes, as per his Pontiac´s master cylinder/proportioning valve.
He told me it was to curb vibration and as a cooling aid for the pipes which were for the front discs, the rear connection does not have this.
The idea is, the front brakes, which are close, get hot and can heat the fluid up to the brake proportioning valve, if the line were just straight and 90º the heat could cause it to buckle, so the coil takes it better without distortion.
He also added that he has seen coils off the rear discs as well to dissipate heat without distortion to the brake line there.

Now that is a new look at makes some sense. With all do respect I don't believe that the heat could cause it to buckle, I don't believe that for a second (not being educated in the subject I accept that I could be wrong though). But the length the coils add could most certainly give some "cooling down" distance between the heat producing calipers and the master cyl. I can understand that but I don't believe adding a few more degrees to a piece of metal tubing is going go increase the probability of it cracking. It's like the worry I have heard people have over paint on a valve cover being "heat resistant". They have never checked the temp on a black car in the middle of the summer sun in Phoenix.

Brian

[Bryan59EC]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

They have never checked the temp on a black car in the middle of the summer sun in Phoenix.

Brian

Boy--I have
Lived in Phoenix for about 10 years
Drove a black Chevy pickup all that time---(still have that truck)
This was in the 80s before black was a popular color.

Not only a black truck---------NO AC

[MARTINSR]

Yeow, yeah it gets hot. I was there on July 4th a few years ago and I went to the State Capital building and was walking in the park next door. It was so hot that my soles fell off my shoes! I am not making this up! My soles fell off the shoes all the back to the heel and I had to use rubber bands to keep them on until I replaced them that night, I am not kidding! I always joke how when you got out of the air conditioned car you burst into flames. How you drove that truck around without a/c is beyond me.

Brian

[Blazin72]

Speaking of hot, last summer a friend and I were offroading in the desert east of San Diego.
Well, the picture says enough....

[MARTINSR]

So what do you think the roof of a black car would be, 150-160-170?

Brian

[eksessiv]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

No, again, look at the link I posted. And again, I laid it out.

"Under what circumstances would you put the lines on the master cyl before the master cyl was bolted to the booster or firewall? I have never worked on an assembly line but I just can't grasp this. If the master cyl went on first then the lines there would be no reason for these coils to "support" anything and if the lines were in first and then the master cyl was installed, again no reason to "support" anything, explain to this old guy would you please?"

And

"So putting that thought into play, how in the world could that master cyl be installed on the line where those coils would come into play to hold it in place? And another question, why the coils at all? The coils don't make it stronger! Coils aren't somehow going to support the master where a 90 degree bend wouldn't have.

Like I said, this is how I see it, if someone has other ideas if these guys who worked at Ford can explain it, please get the word because I don't get it."

And by the way, I work on cars for a living and have for 35 years.



Brian

Man you'll have to forgive me. It was late and at the time I did not even realize there were more pages to the thread. Thanks for replying though.

[YakimaC]

Powerrodsmike is correct however in the photos it looks like the lines are line clamped to the firewall which defeats the purpose alltogether. What you want to do is make the last point on the line to anchor is on the frame since the body is what moves ever so slightly due to rubber mounted body.

[YakimaC]

1234567890

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by YakimaC

1234567890

WTH?

Brian

[boothboy]

Better radio reception?
BB

[poncho62]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

WTH?

Brian

People count to 10 when they get frustrated....I think someone is frustrated with this thread......

[boothboy]

They're not for better radio reception?
BB